Friday, October 28, 2016

Could The Beast of Revelation 17 possibly be a different Beast?

I've suggested one bold new theory on how Revelation 17 ties into the rest of the book already [And followed up on it in Who Is The Bride of Christ].  Now I have another one.

The parallel imagery of Seven Heads and Ten Horns leads to an assumption that the Beast of Chapter 17 is the same one we saw in Chapter 13.  And references to The Beast made in chapters 14-16 are clearly the Beast out of the Sea.

But The Dragon also had Seven Heads and Ten Horns and that is indisputably a different entity.  The Beast of Chapter 17 also has in common with the Beast out of The Sea over The Dragon being called a Beast.  And also terminology that seems to imply one of the Seven Heads is an individual who has died and been resurrected, but how that idea is communicated is different.  However it is called a Scarlet Beast, which is a variation of the Color Red, so the Revelation 17 Beast is affiliated with the same Color as The Dragon.

References to The Beast of Chapter 13 in other chapters usually mention The False Prophet, or The Mark, or the Image.  But in Chapter 17 it seems to be The Woman, Mystery Babylon, who is serving The False Prophet's function, as a simultaneously religious and economic system.

However Revelation 11's Beast is described with terminology elsewhere used only in Chapter 17, the Beast that Ascends out of the Bottomless Pit/Abyss, and goes into Perdition. 

I've also noted recently that it is strictly speaking the Ten Horns not the Eight King himself who hates and attacks The Harlot.

I've talked a lot on this Blog about the possibility of a Decoy Antichrist, possibly to be identified with The Terrible of The Nations of Ezekiel.  And while I've connected that figure to themes of Revelation like the Kings of The East, I had lacked a clearly specific place for him.  Until within the last month when I thought of this possibility.

However, it then occurred to me, what if they are the same Beast and yet different in terms of which of the Seven Heads is the main Head in mind?

I have laid out already my main view on the Seven Kings.  In identifying them with modern Geopolitical entities, The Lion is Iraq and/or ISIS, the Bear is Iran and perhaps parts of Iraq currently controlled by Iran via the Mahdi Army (the Medes being The Kurds and the Persians being the Shiites).  The four heads of the Leopard are Greece, Macedonia, Turkey and Egypt, and the Fourth Beast/Seventh Head (the one with the Ten Horns) is the European Union.

When we separate the Death and Resurrection imagery of 13 and 17.  Only 13 requires a Mortal Wound, sometimes assumed to specifically be a head wound but that forgets that the use of the word Head is itself symbolic in these chapters.  Meanwhile my argument that the Eight King must be one of the first Five applies solely to Chapter 17.

I feel the one in 13 make most sense if the Resurrection/healing of the Wound itself happens in the End Times, before the eyes of the World.  While the one in 17 I think could maybe have been Resurrected in the past, perhaps in 30 AD (Matthew 27:52-53) as part of fulfilling Daniel 12, but then was sealed in the Abyss.

If The Terrible of The Nations is someone who lived in the Past resurrected in the End Times.  Based on Ezekiel 29&30 the first obvious candidate is Nebuchadrezzar, as I alluded to in my last post.

There are people arguing Nebuchadrezzar is the Antichrist, including a Google Group.  Much of the argument for that is the Terrible of the Nations passages, because they overlook the last part of Ezekiel 30 which identifies the Terrible of The Nations with the one who gives not who receives the Mortal Wound.  And the Prophecy against the Prince (not King) of Tyre in chapter 28 could also back that up.

However, the fact that Daniel 4 depicts Nebuchadrezzar as being Saved I view as a problem with the whole "Goeth into Perdition" detail.  Though perhaps that is less definitive since I'm now pretty much a Universalist, and Nebuchadrezzar wasn't a Church Age believer.  But it still seems odd to me, and I've yet to see a Nebuchadrezzar is the Antichrist argument address Daniel 4.

Nebuchadrezzar was the first of the Seven Kings in my view.  The remaining four of the first five would be Cyrus, Alexander The Great (or maybe a Ptolemy), Antigonus or Demetrius, and a Seleucid King.

Of those I feel inclined to rule out the Ptolemies and maybe also Alexander on the grounds that if a Beast of Revelation is a Pharaoh of Egypt, that is definitely the Revelation 13 Beast.  Also both Cyrus and Alexander I view as like Nebuchadrezzar confirmed to most likely be among the saved, so if that rules him out it maybe rules them out too.

There is not much to Biblically make Antigonos or Demetrius significant.  But if you think The Antichrist is also the Little Horn of Daniel 8, then that makes the Seleucids, especially Antiochus Epiphanes, a pretty strong candidate.  And if the Beast out of the Sea is a Ptolemy, then one of his adversaries being a Seleucid would fit well.

7 comments:

  1. My pet subject!
    The beast out of the sea rev13 agrees with daniels 4 th beast out of the great sea the 4 th kingdom on earth, the three previous being greece, medo- persia and firstly Babylon.
    So dan 4 th beast out if the great sea is the kingdom of Rome where the first ten emperors of rome then an 11 is cited as the little horn.
    That little horn was ruling in the day john recieved the prophecy.
    That was the emperor Domitian who partialy fulffiled the little horn prophecy but being one man could not fulfil the length of rule 1260 days which meant one thousand and two hunded and sixty years. Plus being a roman emperor a authority of God , the devil could not fully manifest the antichrist spirit through him.( hence little horn- little strengthofnthe antichrist spirit) Domitian unlike most emperors didnt just claim to be a god but claimed to be the Lord God , changed the laws of the senate and thought o have two calender months named after him and his coming to power was facilitated by the uprotting of the before him in quick succession by the wars he his father and his brother Titus were involved in. So the little horn spirit of antichrist is the reason the church was in tribulation when john recieved the revelation from Jesus christ. It was we learn in rev 17 the sixth king that now is in johns time that is.
    And in rev 13 although it not said we can deduce seeing here was shown john no 8 th head/ king that the wound to one of the heads of the beast out of the sea must have been on the sixth head domitian who was the little horn strangth of anti christ spirit that was fully come to power as the 8 th king which is the beast that isnthe 8th king is the seat of the papal beast kingdom scarlet with the woman riding it in chapter 17
    We know the roman empire itself was not put there by the dragon and was instead. as all kings and kingdoms were authorised of God . So we know the lawless one the pope the beast the 8 th head/ king was given its throne power and authority by the dragon which is that old serpent called the devil & satan whom decieves the whole world. And so is not of God but of the enemy of christ saying it is the christ as we know the popes say of the papacy itself. And sp we know it is what Jesus warned of coming in his name yet saying they are THE CHRIST and decieving many.

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  2. Domtian was said to have bad eye sight
    The little horn had the eyes of a man - i.e short sighted could not see far off into the future
    This related to the impossibility of one man fulfilling fully the length of rule of the little horn it teuly meaning 1260 years the exact length of papal supremacy proper from 538 ad until the great wound by the abolishment on the papacy forever in italion law with the help of the sword of france when italy became a republic for the first time before the birth of Christ and incidently since before the first of dan 10 horns i.e augustus Ceaser under the latter part of his reign christ Jesus was born.

    Meant to say three kings were uprooted in QUICK SUCCESSION IN the wars of he and his father and brother TITUS

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  3. 538 ad to 1798 ad beast great woubd forver abolished
    Reason it was bot 537 was the pagans occupied rome so the antichrist papacy could not rule fron rome until a year after the decree by Justinian
    Lawless one ignored the law and came back up out ofhte earth where the dragons water had been swallowed up meaning doctrine of demons infected people's nations tongues set up new modern era papacy second beast out of the earth
    Negotiation into hreat city vatican was done by one of two horns like a lamb the jseuit gen who on behalf of the first horn the pope signed the alteran treaty in 1929 after dealing directly with mussolini this gave birth to the vhs complex as its called in international law which is disputed. It is the reason the scriptures call the vatican the great city due to its claim of nationhood statehood.

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  4. Sorry about my typing

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  5. God prophesied the little horn as manifesting in men in rome as the spirit of antichrist
    First as an unbeliever king emperor the very authority paul speaks of as he who lets will let until he it taken out of the way . Let id old english for holding back ( again we see evidence of the whore of babylons ( which means confusion ) sitting and so having influence over many languages) holding the lawlessness back then as the decievers masterplan the beast king papacy of rome the very anti christ itself.

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  6. Holding the lawless one back was the Godly ordained authority of the emperor of rome which gave way literally after it was taken out of the way to let the antichrist the pope sit in Rome while they went off to constantinople.

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  7. There is no antichrist ressurection
    The beast that was is not then gorth to perdition means
    Domitian then a gap then the papacy in perdition on arrival
    And the beast papacy first beast
    Then the wound
    Then the healing of the wound by the beast out of the earth
    Where the men infected with satans water went into the earth and produced the second beast oyt if the earth.
    Many waters means people nations tongues who recieve the devils doctrines of the popes via the extent of the great cutys influnce teaching them.

    We as christians were washed in a form of words the good news of our salvation the word of truth

    They the followers of the beast are in the dragon water doctrine of devils of the papacy which cone out of the mouth of the dragon to the mouth of the beast from its great city ..

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