Revelation Chapter 6 and the Non Signs

I apologize that this post shall in some sense be repeating some stuff I covered early in the Blog's history, but it shall also reflect some things I've changed my mind on and is a good reintroduction to how to refute the "Pre-Wrath" view of Chris White.

The basic error of their view is identifying The Parousia in Revelation using the characteristics of it from the Olivte Discourse that are the least unique to the Parousia and also least important to defining what the Parousia is.

The thesis of this post is that all of Revelation Chapter 6 (the first 6 seals) correlates to the "Non Signs" or "Beginnings of Sorrows" portion of the Olivite Discourse.

Matthew 24:4-8, Mark 13:5-8 and Luke 21:8-11 is what Chuck Missler liked to call the "Non Signs" portion of the Olivite discourse.  Jesus specifically said "that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet."  Chris White however continues to obsess over insisting these are End Times specific events (he specifically argues they are the first half of the "70th Week").  But that is willful disregard of what Jesus specifically told us.

In Matthew 24 the persecution refereed to happens after the era of these non signs, in Luke 21 it is said to happen before them (Luke's I believe is about the Jewish in origin persecutions depicted in Acts) and in Mark 13 this persecution seems to be happening at the same time.  Mark is about the many persecutions Christians have faced in the last 2000s years, (even after the West became Christian in other regions persecution continued, especially for the "Nestorian" Church.)  Only Matthew is about a specifically End Times global persecution that might be carried out by the "Antichrist" but it might be the "Antichrist" will present himself as "saving" Christians from it.  And that is how I feel the Fifth Seal factors in.

I used to disagree with associating the Non Signs with the Four Horsemen because I understood this fact and I used to believe the Four Horsemen are specifically end times.  But I have come to take what can be considered a Historicist view of Revelation 6.  My overall view of Revelation remains Futurist because, well I'm open minded on the first 4 Trumpets (chapter 8 is more plausible to interpret histrionically then chapter 9) but the Seventh is definitely yet Future, the Seventh Trumpet is the Last Trump, that I still strongly believe.  But one element of the Non Signs is missing when you make them just the Four Horsemen, the Earthquakes.

The "Pre-Wrath" view of Chris White and some other views I've seem argued for, insist the Sixth Seal is the Rapture because Matthew 24:29 refers to an Earthquake and the Sun being darkened and stars falling from heaven.  In Revelation the Sixth Seal is the first time those three things happen but it's not the last.  And in Matthew 24 this is NOT the first reference to Earthquakes.  Also The Sixth Seal doesn't talk about lighting or thunder.

The Earthquake of Matthew 24:29 I view as the Earthquake of the Seventh Trumpet in Revelation 11:19, and maybe the Ark being seen in Heaven is the Sign of the Son of Man of Matthew 24:30.  The stars falling from Heaven is what the Dragon's tail does in Chapter 12, the start of Chapter 12 is also what I believe Luke's "Signs in the Sun, Moon and Stars" refers to.  And the Sun and Moon were already darkened in the 4th Trumpet.

Actually I have now realized Matthew 24:29 does NOT even refer to an Earthquake, that word is in the three Olivte Discourse passages only during the Beginnings of Sorrows.  At the Parousia it's the powers in heaven that are shaken, which I think is an allusion to Revelation 12's War in Heaven.  I do believe an Earthquake happens at the time of the Parousia because of where I place it in Revelation, but there is in fact no Olivte Discourse basis for that.

Revelation 11 also clearly tells us that Wrath does NOT come till after the Seventh Trumpet.  So when the Kings of the Earth think Wrath has arrived in Revelation 6:15-17 they are wrong and mistaken and indeed not heeding what Jesus said about the Non Signs.

No account of the Olvite Disocurse refers to the Moon becoming Blood, Blood is a BRIGHT shade of Red so the Moon being darkened CANNOT be the same thing.  Only three verses of Scripture refer to the Moon becoming like Blood, the Sixth Seal, Joel 2 and Acts 2 when Peter quotes Joel 2.

Joel 2 says the Sun will be darkened and the Moon become like Blood BEFORE the Day of the LORD, not on or during but BEFORE.  And Peter is referring to this prophecy as having already been fulfilled in some way by Pentecost, presumably by the Earthquake and Darkening of the Sun associated with the Crucifixion.

So I don't think the Sixth Seal is about a singular event, it's a Prophecy of every-time people mistakenly think the End is Nigh because of perfectly common events like Earthquakes, shooting stars and Eclipses.  Earthquakes are often accompanied by volcanoes and there are accounts of volcanic eruptions making the Sun look dark and the Moon look red.

I've seen an argument that these kings of the Earth saying "hide us from the face of Him that sits on the Throne" is proof they are seeing the Parousia right now.  But again Jesus warns of there being people who will think the Parousia has happened or is happening but it isn't.  The fact that a lot Christian are forgetting to factor into all this is that now over half the world's population believes in the Biblical God and Jesus in some capacity at least nominally.

So again we can't build doctrine on the testimony of fallible mortals.

Ephraim Ben Joseph is the Horse-Rider of Jacob's Prophecy about Dan

Genesis 49:16-17

Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

This passage is frequently the beginning of attempts to say The Antichrist will come from Dan, along with a reference to Dan in Jeremiah that also mentions Horses.  But who/what are this Horse and it's Rider?

 It is commonly speculated that the reason Dan and Ephraim are left out of the 144,000 in Revelation 7 is how it was through them that Idolatry entered Israel, in Judges 17-18 and then with Jeroboam, an Ephraimite who built Golden Calves at Dan and Bethel in Ephraim.

It is often assumed that the difference with Ephraim is Ephraim is still represented by the name of Joseph, since Manasseh is named separately Joseph here must be only Ephraim.  But Numbers 13 doesn't remind us of Joseph when it identifies Ephraim's Spy, but calls it's Manasseh spy of Joseph.  Manasseh himself as a Firstborn was kind of split in two, the two sides of the Jordan, called Machir and Gilead in the Song of Deborah, and this is needed to justify Jeroboam getting Ten Tribes, attempts to justify saying he also got Simeon will not hold up.  Maybe the two tribes left out of the Sealing are involved with The Mark, Satan's counterfeit of the Seal?

Now, both that Judges narrative and the Jeroboam situation may make you think Ephraim lead the way and Dan followed.  But Ephaim's major spiritual problems don't start till Judges 17, while a Danite has an issue already  in Leviticus 24.  But I also think that the mother of Micah in Judges 17 was Delilah and that Delilah was not a philistine.

Jacob's blessing on Joseph in Genesis 49 says he has a Bow and depicted him as an Archer, Zechariah 9 also depicted Ephraim as an Archer.  Isaiah 28 says Ephraim has a Crown.  Isaiah 63 represents Israel as a Horse.  The rider on the White Horse in Revelation 6 has a Bow and a Crown, and is often speculated to possibly be The Antichrist while others have wanted to make him a more positive figure.

It is interesting to note that Jehu wielded a Bow and Arrow when he overthrew Jehoram while riding  a horse drawn chariot.   Jehu is someone a Messiah Ben-Joseph claimant may seek to model themselves after.

Maybe the False Prophet is from Dan and The Antichrist from Ephraim?  When I look at the Prophetic model lots of Rabbinic Jews are expecting, it's easy to see Messiah Ben-Joseph who is Mortally Wounded by Armilus as the Beast, and the False Prophet as Messiah Ben-David who resurrects him.  There is also a view proposed in Rabbinic writings that Messiah Ben-David's mother will be from Dan. 

I feel like I've made a solid case already, but for those who believe in Mazzaroth/Gospel in The Stars theories, I have one more factor to add.

The most popular constellations to identify Joseph/Ephraim with are Aquarius and Taurus (and if Manasseh needs a separate one it's one right next to one of those).  I see no Biblical basis for Aquarius.  Taurus is justifiable by Joseph's blessing in Deuteronomy 33 where he's called a Cow and an Aurochus (Re'em translated Unicorn in the KJV), but in that context Leo is no longer Judah but either Gad or Dan.

In Genesis 49 Joseph is an Archer, the Archer constellation is Sagittarius, who is also a Horseman and has but isn't wearing a Crown, the Corona Australis.  People looking for astronomical references in Revelation tend to see the White Horseman as Sagittarius for these reasons.  And Sagittarius is right next to Scorpio, which gets identified with Dan based on Genesis 49.

The Four Horsemen of Revelation 6

This is not gonna be your typical Four Horsemen study.  I'm not going to go equally in depth into each one.  I'm gonna elaborate on my own thoughts on what I feel others commonly get wrong, while adding unique observations of my own.  Rather then rehash what countless other teachers have gone over.

Even though I disagree with his Pre-Trib assumptions I recommend Chuck Missler's seminars and related articles on them from his Website, the last three at least.  And to elaborate on the issues connected to the Third Horseman I recommend the documentaries The Money Masters, America Freedom to Fascism, and Fall of The Republic.  On on the issues connected to the Fourth Horsemen I recommend Endgame:Blueprint for Global Enslavement, and various of Chris White's videos on YouTube dealing with The New Age Movement.

[[Update: My endorsements of Alex Jones documentaries I now greatly regret since he's become a Trump supporter.]]

First I want to discus the common notion that they're perfectly analogous with Matthew 24:5-7.  As I explain in my Olivte Discourse Study, these are the Non Signs, they're characteristic of all History and Jesus' whole point here was it is fallacy to cite those vague things as Signs.

I'm not saying the Horsemen have no connection to these trends, I wouldn't have recommend those documentaries if I felt that way.  In a sense they are these common trends of history coming to their true commencement.  But to cite that part of the Olivte Discourse as specifically End Times is to give a middle finger to what Jesus actually said.

Verse 7 says these things are the "Beginning of Sorrows", that doesn't contradict my point.  What Preterists miss is that in a sense the entirety of the Church Age is the Time of the End.

With that out of the way, I want to get into to how they relate to the issue of The Antichrist.  The most common view is The White Horseman is The Antichrist, which I consider possibly true in a sense, I'll get to that.

Some like to say all four horses have the same rider, and that's The Antichrist.  The problem with that is the Fourth Rider is identified in Revelation 6 itself as Death.  Revelation 20 reveals that Death is sent into the lake of Fire after the Millennium, after Satan even.  The Beast and The False Prophet are sent there before The Millennium.

So IF all four have the same rider, that goes against the rider being The Antichrist.

Is it possible Death rides all four not just the Fourth?  Would seem weird not to identify him earlier, but things affiliated with earlier horsemen are repeated for the Pale Horse.  However looking at Zechariah 6 which is linked to the Four Horseman issue, I'm inclined to view them as separate riders.

Not all agree The White Horseman is The Antichrist.  First objection might be, why is this the only time in Revelation that The Antichrist isn't "the beast"?  Other books of The Bible use various titles for him, but Revelation is everywhere else far more consistent.  Well, the second beast of Chapter 13 is called by a far more human title elsewhere, The False Prophet, so why not the first?

But also I feel he doesn't become The Beast until he ascends out of the Bottomless Pit, when his Mortal Wound is healed.  The first reference to The Beast is in Chapter 11, when The Witnesses are killed, 3.5 years into the 70th Week.  The Rider on the White horse I view as the Human being who later becomes The Beast.

This isn't something to build doctrine on, but the fact that so many awaited Messianic Figures of false religions also ride White Horses, (like Kalki, the future Avatar of Vishnu in Hinduism), I feel backs up this being The Antichrist.  Doesn't prove The Antichrist will actually claim to be those individuals either, I believe Satan has planted many seeds for the End Time deception, and that even he isn't 100% sure how things will play out.  Example, while I've come to reject the theory that The Antichrist will claim to be the Mahdi of Islam, I do not doubt at all Satan created that Prophetic tradition for the purpose of being a possible option for The Antichrist.

The Rider on the White Horse is often interpreted as a positive figure.  Confusing him with the White Horseman of Revelation 19 is the root of that.  But not all interpretations making him a good guy make him Jesus.

I've seen this Horseman argued to be The Church.  I feel that view is not sufficiently backed up by any other terminology used of The Church.

Some Muslim scholars have identified their Mahdi with this part of Revelation, which only lends fuel to Christians who are obsessed with an Islamic Antichrist.  I don't know if current Mormons have actually connected their White Horse prophecy to the First Horseman.  But I feel like Revelation 6 must have inspired Joseph Smith or whoever really originated it.

The Fourth Horseman we know winds up in the lake of fire, but does that prove they're all villains?  Death is an Angelic being clearly while the first I view as Human, so there can be differences between what kinds of personages they are.

Perhaps it's not either/or, perhaps he is a good guy at first, but makes a deal with the Devil latter.  There are Biblical precedents for a leader anointed by a True Prophet of God's orders winding up a villain.  Saul, Jeroboam, Jehu, and yes even Solomon.  Not to mention Jesus personally choose Judas, yet he was a Devil (John 6:70).

I and Chris White think he may claim to be, or be claimed by others to be, the Rabbinic Jewish figure of Messiah Ben-Joseph.  And with what I suggested above, maybe that wouldn't even be entirely a wrong claim.  Three out of those four Old Testament examples are people viewed in one way or another as a type of Ben-Joseph by those who believe in that concept.

I talked in that post I made on White's theory about how even some Christians accept this idea of a Messiah Ben Joseph separate from Jesus.  I'm kind of surprised I haven't yet seen any of those Christians link Messiah Ben-Joseph to the White Horseman.

The rider on the White Horse has a Bow and is given a Crown.  Genesis 49:24 Jacob says of Joseph "But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob".  And Zechariah 9:13 says "When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons O Javan".  And Isaiah 28 "Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim".

Those who look for astronomical correlations to the imagery in Revelation, inevitably see Sagittarius as the Rider on the White Horse.  He is a Horseman, he has a Bow, and is sort of holding the Corona Borealis (a Crown).

Different Mazzaroth/Gospel in The Stars researchers have different theories on how to align the 12 Zodiac signs with the 12 tribes.  Leo as Judah and Scorpio as Dan are the most universal.  But maybe more then one such theory is equally true, because the 12 Tribes are defined differently in different Biblical passages.  Even on the near universal two I mentioned, Deuteronomy 33 has Dan as the Lion's Whelp.

The same Biblical references that could connect Joseph/Ephraim to the White Horseman, have caused some Mazzaroth sites to make him Sagittarius.  Sagittarius being next to Scorpio is interesting, Dan and Ephraim are the two names left out of Revelation 7's account of the sealing of the 144,000.  It is Genesis 49 that makes Dan a Serpent (Scorpion fits the Biblical definition of a Serpent, and Scorpio is linked to Ophiuchus and Serpens) and Judah the Lion.  That Chapter's description of Joseph can only make him Sagittarius, not Taurus or Aquarius.

Generally the first and last Horsemen are the only ones identified with specific personages.  Death and The Antichrist.  What about the two in between?  Certainly those evils can have villains in charge of them too.  But as far as other Biblical Prophetic personages to identify them with goes, I can't think of anyone for the Black Horseman.  For the Red Horseman however, someone who goes to War with The Antichrist seems logical.

The King of The South or King of The North of Daniel 11:40 perhaps.  But I've discussed elsewhere how The Terrible of The Nations in Ezekiel seems to be the one who gives the beast his Mortal Wound.  And he does so with a Sword, and The Rider on The Red Horse has a Sword.

Lastly I want to address Chris White's claim that the "wild beasts of the earth" from the Fourth Horseman's description are the beasts of Revelation 13, and so he can therefore place the Abomination of Desolation in the Fourth Seal thus helping the Pre-Wrath position.

True, it's technically the same Greek word used for beast, and only here in Revelation is "wild" added to try and make it seem like it's clearly wild animals, but it is rendered "wild beasts" elsewhere outside Revelation.  And in Revelation this is also the only time it's plural.  The Beasts of Revelation 13 are never refereed to with the plural form of the word, when it's necessary to refer to both in the same breath, the second becomes The False Prophet.

His argument about the grammar of the verse is true however.  The Greek text does imply these beasts are controlling the famines and wars and earthquakes mentioned before.  So I do think the word is being used here in a way related to Daniel 7 and 8, as imperialistic nation states.  But it's not the Chapter 13 Beasts yet.

They could possibly be the current Globalist Agenda carrying out their planned Eugenics operations.  I think, drawing on White's own theories about The Antichrist, that The Antichrist may present himself as saving the world from their evil operations.

Or maybe they're the first three beasts of Daniel 7, before the Fourth Beast conquers them.  Which also lends itself to other theories of White's, which I partly agree and partly disagree with.