The Rapture and the In-Gathering of Israel

Chris White is correct that Matthew 24:29-31 is about the Rapture.  However he is equally WRONG when he says that passage is not about the In-gathering of Israel.

You see his version of "Pre-Wrath" allows you to be not Pre-Trib but still basically fully Dispensationalist.  They still place Gaps in Daniel 11 and 9 for example  And most importantly they have to violently reject any implication that The Church is Israel.

I reject full Dispensationalism because I understand Romans 11 and Galatians 3.  The Church is a part of Israel and Gentile believers are being grafted into Israel "agaisnt nature".

Now you can say I'm still partially Dispensationalist because unlike Post-Tribbers and most non Pre-Millennials I don't think that means biological Israel doesn't matter.  In fact even most Pre-Tribbers think post Pentecost Jews who die without ever believing in Jesus will not benefit from the Eternal fulfillment of God's promises to the Patriarchs and David.  I however understand that after the Fullness of the Gentile is grafted in ALL Israel shall be Saved.

The problem with Chris White's acting like saying Matthew 24:31 is the Gathering of Israel is just as stupid as denying it's the Rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4, is that when Jesus says "from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other", He is basically quoting Deuteronomy 30:4.  And many scholars throughout history have recognized that, rejecting that began with Darby.

Now the thing about Deuteronomy 29 and 30 is it's about events that will happen multiple times, and not always looking exactly the same, it's about the cycle of Israel's disobedience then punishment then redemption.  Nehemiah 1:9 quotes this same verse as fulfilled in his day, and I do think it's in a sense fulfilled by what happened in 1948.  And I think there may be a final fulfillment that doesn't happen till after the Millennium but before New Jerusalem descends.  But Jesus clearly also wants us to understand The Rapture as a fulfillment of this as well.

In Revelation 12-19 during the second half of the Week terrestrial Israel isn't scattered, she is The Woman in a place prepared for her in the wilderness.

White strongly argues that Daniel 12's Resurrection passage is about the Rapture.  Well guess what that entire massive Prophecy of Daniel was entirely about God's Covenant with Israel.

Chris White like Post-Tribbers points out how much of Matthew is clearly Church specific, especially 24 and 25 being a discourse given only to the 12.  And yet Matthew is also the most Jewish Gospel, Pre-Tribbers didn't make that up.  It more then any other focuses on Jesus as the rightful King of Israel and how He fulfilled Old Testament Prophecy.  The other Synoptics expand on how Jesus is the Savior of all not just Israel (a seed already planted in Matthew) and then John is the most Theological.

This is why Matthew's came first, because Paul said The Gospel was for the Jews first and then the Gentiles.  The least Jewish of the Synoptics is the one that doesn't directly refer to the In-Gathering in it's Olivite Discourse.  This is also why only Matthew's Parusia passage mentions the Trumpet, because the significance of that is inherently Jewish coming from the Shofar, the Jubilee and Numbers 10.

Also this a good place to remind people of my belief that Joel 2:15-16 is also a Rapture Passage.

God's Unconditional Covenant with Israel

Pre-Trib Dispensationalist and Zionist Christians love to emphasize the Unconditionality of God's Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

And I agree with that even though I don't entirely agree with them on issues like the timing of the Rapture or how Israel relates to The Church.  Nor do I agree that America needs to blindly support Modern Israel no matter what, depending on foreign allies was something God told Israel not to do throughout the Old Testament.

The thing is, because most of them support a doctrine of Eternal Endless Torment, they don't apply this Undontionality to every individual Jew, just to Israel as a nation. But Malachi 3:6 says "For I am Yahuah, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."  That verse isn't about Israel as a unit, it's about plural sons of Jacob.  Earlier Malachi 3 talked about how the Fire of God is a purifying fire used to refine the sons of Levi and purge them like Gold and Silver.

Romans 11 says "All Israel shall be Saved".  In the common Preterist/Post-Trib view, that in Romans 9-11 only the already Saved truly count as Israel, that is nonsensical.  However Dispensationalsits are not taking that declaration truly literally either.  They believe by "All Israel" it means all Israelites still alive when this prophecy is fulfilled.  They don't believe it will save Dathan and Kore and the followers of their Rebellion, or Judas, Ciaphas and Ananias.  In fact most Dispsenationists as much as they may politically support Israel still think on an individual basis only Jews who believe in Jesus are saved on this side of the Cross, so therefore they believe the 6 Million Jews who perished in the Holocaust will not take part in Israel's final restoration.

Now I do believe there is a future terrestrial mass conversion event that will play a role in the fulfillment of Romans 11 and other Prophecies.  But that event proceeds the beginning of the Millennium, which is both proceeded by and followed by phases of The Resurrection.  And Ezekiel 37 clearly associates the future restoration of Israel with the Resurrection of The Dead.

I disagree with certain aspects of Two House Theology, but I do think they have a point on some things.  And if Genesis 48 is foretelling that Ephraim shall become the fullness of the gentiles, and all Israel shall be Saved, then logically all the Gentiles shall be saved as well.  In fact Romans 11 seems to say All Israel won't be Saved till the Fullness of the Gentiles are brought into Israel first.

God's unconditional Covenant with Abraham was I think to begin with a picture of His unconditional Love for all of us.  From the beginning God's promise to Abraham was that through him All the Nations and Families of the Earth would be Blessed.

Will there be Believers after The Rapture?

First of all I don't like to use the term "Tribulation Saints" since in my view the Great Tribulation ends at the Rapture.  You certainly could call the situation of the post Rapture world a tribulation, but as far as the technical use of that word as part of Bible Prophecy goes, it's primarily pre-Rapture.

However since my view is a type of Mid-Trib, the question of if there are Post-Rapture believers is something I need to address.  Things I might have said a few years ago on this subject on this Blog I'm not likely to still agree with since my attitude towards Dispensationalism has changed.

I do not believe Israel and the Church are totally separate like Chuck Missler does.  I do believe that Romans 11 clearly teaches that Gentile Believers are grafted into Israel.  So in that sense I'm not a full Dispensationalist.

But I suppose you could call me a type of Dispensationalist since I do believe NT era believers have special promises and benefits (like that the Holy Spirit won't leave us) OT believers didn't have.  And that Romans 11 does also promise a future revival among the Biological descendants of Israel.

Now the key to my Rapture view is my Chronological view of Revelation, and that The Parusia and the Rapture happen between the Seventh Trumpet and the First Bowl of God's Wrath.  I believe Israel is The Woman of Revelation 12 as well as The Bride of Christ and The Church is The Man Child.  But I've talked on my other Blog about how Gentile Believers aren't limited to the Church Age.  So at the end of Revelation 12 when it speaks of "the rest of her Seed that keep the Commandments of Jesus", I think those are Gentile believers that may pop up after The Rapture.

In Revelation 18 when God calls His People out of Babylon, I believe that is physical Israel not Believers.

I just did a post on Revelation 16:15.

Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 15, and Revelation 20:4 deal with those who are martyred for not taking The Mark or worshiping the Beast or his Image.

Revelation 20:4 is the reason I need to view them being Post-Rapture saints since they're specifically Resurrected right when the Millennium starts.  But Post-Tribbers see that as proof that that's when The Rapture happens, because they abuse the use of the word "first" in that verse.  Hence my post on The First Resurrection.

Revelation 14 introduces this subject after it depicts the 144 Thousand in the Throne Room of God on the Heavenly Zion, and describes them with clear Resurrection terminology, being the First Fruits and Redeemed from the Earth.

I have considered before that most of these Martyrs may be killed very early on, perhaps all before the first Bowl is poured out, since the effects of the Bowls will greatly preoccupy The Beast.  But that's a hunch I can't really prove.

Because Post Tribbers completely reject Dispensationalism, they feel any evidence of believers on Earth during the Bowls must refute everything but Post-Trib.  But I'm afraid that is an oversimplification.  The dependence of Post-Trib on garbling the chronology is the reason I can't take it seriously anymore.

Which is why I refer readers again to my post on Revelation 14:14-20.

Who is The Bride of Christ?

I did a post defending The Church as the Bride of Christ once.  My views on a number of things have changed since then, mainly my becoming less Dispensational.  I now believe The Church is grafted into Israel.  Though I do still believe there are probably some unique promises for Church Age believers.

So while on the one hand I want to talk in this post about how I'm more open to rethinking how we think about the Bride of Christ then I was then.  I first want to talk about how the main people you'll find on a google search for "The Church is not the Bride of Christ", are absolute Dispensationists as much as Chuck Missler is, just changing which Covenant people they say is The Bride.  And in so doing say things that bug me even more now then they did back then.

Jerusalem is the Lamb's Wife quite clearly in Revelation 21.  And to them the word Jerusalem can't possibly apply to The Church.  One went all in on this "Revelation is about Israel not The Church" idea saying even the Seven Churches are about Israel not the Church.  I think it's absurd to say something so important to the New Testament would be totally absent from the closing book of The Bible.

I could point out to them how the message to Philadelphia and the description of New Jerusalem clearly tie themselves to how Paul taught his The Church is God's Temple doctrine, via the Twelve Disciples as Pillars.  Or that Jesus told the Twelve Disciples at the Last Supper they would rule the Twelve Tribes.  They simply wouldn't care.

But now to how I'm more open.

The thing I've noticed is that Psalm 45, generally agreed to be a Messianic Psalm, has The Messiah and His Wife and their Children, as distinct entities.  Isaiah 53 also says the Suffering Servant will have Seed.  These do not mean Jesus will reproduce biologically, they are about John 1 teaching how Jesus gave us the ability to become Sons of God.  And probably also about The Man-Child being The Church. 

In Matthew 9:15, Mark 2:19 and Luke 5:34 Jesus refers to His Disciples as the Children of the Bridegroom or Bridechamber.  Some Translations try to make this say servants, but the Greek text of the Textus Receptus says children making the KJV right here.  What John The Baptist says in John 3:29 can be taken in context as saying the former disciples of John becoming Disciples of Jesus are The Bride, but I think that's an oversimplification, he doesn't directly say that.

I think it is believers as the Temple of God/Body of Christ that include The Bride and the Children together.  My post about The Vail of The Temple suggests good reason to see The Bride and Groom as the Holy of Holies/Holy Place, The Vail torn means they are no longer separate.  The Children may then equate to the Inner Court.  Originally only Aaronic Priests could enter it, but now all believers are Priests.  There are no separate courts for Gentiles or Women as Galatians 3 shows.  Ephesian 2:14 also says the Wall of partition has been torn down.

I believe Israel is the Woman of Revelation 12, I've argued that the Woman of Revelation 12 and 17 possibly are the same Woman, and returned to that in my recent Eden and Sinai post.[but that argument is now corrected by Eden may have been in Yemen].  The one thing that I was uncomfortable with about that is the implication of no happy ending for Israel.

Unless we conclude that this is also the same Woman who becomes the Bride in Chapter 19 and the Lamb's Wife in Chapter 21.  It makes sense given Paul's discussion in Romans of the divorce and Re-Marriage of Israel.  It's not explicitly stated they are the same because God promised He "will remember their Sins no more", Hebrews 8:12 and 10:17.  Remember in Revelation 18 God calls His People out of Babylon.

In fact that Greek word translated Bride in Revelation 19 is the exact same word used for Woman in chapter 12 and 17.  A word that more specifically means Bride isn't used till chapter 21. And likewise the word for Wife is usually the same word translated Woman.

It might be Isaiah 62 equates to verses 7-9 of Revelation 19, and then Isaiah 63 equates to verses 11-16.

Update: Types

Chuck Missler likes to back up his dispensationalist view of The Bride of Christ doctrine by talking about a theme of  "Gentile Brides" in the Old Testament.  I think he said there are at least 7 once.  But that whole thing is built on sand, having only really Ruth to go on.

Havvah/Eve was made from Adam's flesh, so you can't call that a marriage between separate Blood Lines.

With Rebecca in Genesis 24, the whole point was Abraham sent his servant to get a Wife for Isaac from the descendants of his brother.  Then Jacob's wives came from that same family.

Tamar was not a Canaanite, it was the unnamed wife of Judah who was clearly identified as one.

Rahab the Harlot is not depicted as marrying anyone in the Hebrew Bible, and I've shown that the Recab of Matthew's Genealogy cannot be referring to her.

Of the Wives of David, the only three who have any particular narratives about them are all clearly Israelites. Bathsheba even came from the same Tribe, Judah, as the granddaughter of Athitophel, though her first Husband was a Gentile.  Abigail was from Carmel but had been married to a Calebite.  And Michal was a princess of Benjamin, perhaps making her the most likely to be a type of the New Jerusalem.  Or perhaps Michal is Old Jerusalem and Bethsheba is New Jerusalem.

Esther also was a Benjamite, in that scenario it's the groom who was a gentile.

Solomon's marriages to foreigners are not depicted positively.  And my studies of the Song of Solomon have firmly lead me to conclude that Shulamith was a granddaughter of Solomon.

Nor does Psalm 45 in anyway make it's Bride a Gentile, despite how some seek to abuse the text to make it about the Queen of Sheba.  The "Queen in Gold of Ophir" verse is simply about her wearing expensive imported clothes, because Solomon got his Gold from Ophir.  What's interesting is that Gentile women attend the Wedding.  Her being told to forget her own people and her father's house use "Am" not "Goyi" for people, it could be used in the sense of being from a different Tribe of Israel.  Again reflecting how in Deuteronomy 33 the Beloved is of Benjamin.  But also the most significant verse to use "Am" is Genesis 48:19 of Manasseh.

So getting back to Ruth, the thing about her is she's not the only Wife depicted in the story.  Naomi (Who Chuck Missler says represents Israel) is also a Widow, and her husband's name makes him a possible type of the King, Elimelech.  The narrative point in this Book is about Ruth being a gentile who becomes an Israelite via Faith in Israel's God, not about a Gentile Bride being separate from Israel.

So don't let anything I said above make you think I'm against Mixed Marriages, I have a post on my other Blog defending them.

Update April 16th 2018: Methosius of Olympus.

 Methodius of Olympus a Pre-Nicene Church Father taught that The Woman of Revelation 12 is The Church and The Man-Child the Saints. That is a confusing explanation, but I think a product of being at least partly aware of the truths I just laid out above but being blinded by the Anti-Semitism the Early Church had already developed.

Of course that could be explained by language like in Ezekiel 16, where Judah, Samaria and Sodom are refereed to as well as their "daughters", referring to the people of the City as the City's children.

Methodius's writings we don't have in full.  This looks to me like evidence he was a Pre-Nicene father who wasn't Post-Trib since I don't see how making the Man-Child the Saints rather then Jesus can be made compatible with Post-Trib.  But I'm not gonna bet on that because playing games with the chronology of Revelation is what Post-Tribbers do.  (I'm also well aware he wouldn't have used terminology like Post-Trib).

So Methodius might have provided a way to make distinguishing the Bride from the Children of the Bride not even Semi-Dispensational.  But to me that way of looking at it would still have to be Mid-Trib, since it has the Church still existing on Earth after the Rapture.  However there are other pieces of the puzzle that wouldn't quite fit.

Update May 14th 2018: Paul's views on the matter.

All three passages that can be cited as sounding like they're describing The Church or Christians as The Bride rather then the Children are from Paul.

Now I'm someone who wants to refute the notion that Paul was in conflict with the rest of the New Testament, I have posts already dedicated to that issue.  But on this I must admit to being currently a little stumped.

Romans 7 is totally misunderstood however, that marriage related Law is what Paul singled out because he wanted to demonstrate that you are no longer under the Law at Death, and now we are Dead to the Law.  At best it actually makes Believers the Husband not the Wife.  Because we Die in Christ at Baptism.

However Ephesians 5:21-33 and 2 Corinthians 11 do seem to be making The Church the Bride of Christ.

Whether or not those passages can be reinterpreted differently.  Paul is one witness, I have multiple witnesses above on The Church being the Children of the Bridegroom.

Update August 2018: I've contemplated these Paul passages some more.

Ephesian 5 is not really doctrinally calling anyone a Bride or Bridegroom, just telling Husbands to love their wives like Jesus loves them.

2 Corinthians 11:2 I think may have some translation issues.  First of all the word translated "espoused" is not the same Greek word that refers to betrothal elsewhere like when talking about Mary and Joseph, but a form of the same Greek root that the word "harmony" comes from.  Looking at other usage of related words "joined" may be a better translation.

The word for "Husband" Andri, can also just mean an adult male, no word for wife or bride is used.

Some things about the word order are not what I expected either.  The Young's Literal Translation reads.

for I am zealous for you with zeal of God, for I did betroth you to one husband, a pure virgin, to present to Christ,

Which is interesting, but I'm not sure how accurate it is either given the Greek word order.  For one thing, it might be possible it's actually the Andri who's being called a pure virgin.

Basically, it could be this verse is really more about the Body of Christ Doctrine then the Bride of Christ.

Dispensations and Dispensationalism

Dispensationalism has become a name for a very particular view on Biblical History/Prophecy in terms of God's Covenants with humanity, that is virtually inseparable from the Pre-Trib Rapture (and to an extent political Zionism).

I ultimately am not a Dispensationalist, even though I may agree with them on a few things over those who insist NOTHING changed at The Cross or Pentecost.

The word Dispensation does appear in the Bible, in Ephesians 3:2 for example.  But often words like Age, Eon, Aion, or Olam might better fit what people mean by Dispensation.

Other Eschatological models involve God dividing history into different Ages as well.  All of them to some degree really.

Conventional Preterism's problem is that it's largely based on saying the Age of the Old Testament, the Law and the Prophets, didn't end till 70 AD.  So they can make the "Church Age" synonymous with the Millennium and/or New Jerusalem. But Paul taught in places like Ephesians 3 and Galatians 3 that the age of The Law was already past and we were already in the next Age, the Age of Grace, and did so in letters known to be written well before 66 AD.

Likewise Jesus said the Law and the Prophets were until John (The Baptist).  Now I've seen some Preterists respond to that by acting like the Old Covenant can't end till the Blood of the New Covenant was shed, but that is silly.  The age of the Israelites being slaves in Egypt ended a few months before the Mosaic Covenant was made at Sinai.  A new Covenant can't be made till the old one is severed.  And I believe John died six or seven months before Jesus, probably in Tishri, around the same time of year he was conceived.  Just as John's birth and conception were six months before Jesus.

The Temple rituals were still being carried out for 40 years after the deaths of Jesus and John.  But the Talmud records that those offerings were no longer being accepted for 40 years before The Temple was destroyed.

We read in the Jerusalem Talmud:

"Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open" (Jacob Neusner, The Yerushalmi, p.156-157). [the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE]
A similar passage in the Babylonian Talmud states:
"Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves" (Soncino version, Yoma 39b).

And I know the Talmud gives it's own reason for this not making it about Jesus, but it's still there, exactly the right time frame. 

Josephus in Wars of the Jews also records the Divine Presence leaving The Temple before 70 AD, but I think it was longer before then Josephus and his interpreters realized, Josephus didn't witness it directly.  Some of what Josephus describes happening in the Nisan before that fit what the above Talmud passage places 40 years before, mainly the not being able to keep doors shut.  Something similar is also placed on the day Jesus died in one of those alternate Hebrew versions of Matthew the early church fathers quoted.

Now for those Torah centric Hebrew Roots people who are offended by suggesting The Law will end. The Torah never said it would be forever, that is a translation error.

The word translated "Everlasting" or "Forever' or "Eternal" when referring to things like the Levitical Priesthood, The Sabbath and the Holy Days is Olam, which means age or eon, it does not actually mean forever. Whether it's Exodus 40:15, or Leviticus 16:34, or Leviticus 24:8, or Numbers 25:13.  Same with Exo 21:6, Exo 27:21, Exo 28:43, Exo 29:28, Lev 6:18, Lev 6:22.

In Deuteronomy 33:27, Olam is used of the "everlasting arms" but a different word is used to directly call God Eternal.

 Likewise the phrase "all the days", which is introduced about time periods that have an end in Genesis 3:14-17.  And again in Genesis 5.  And it's also used of the Nazarite vow in Numbers 6.  If "all the days" is being used of something that is also defined as an Olam, an Age, then it clearly means all the days of that age, just as it can also mean all the days of someone's life.  Taking the phrase to inherently mean all the days of eternity, it completely illogical.

Exodus 19:5-6 foretells there will be a time when all of the Nation will be Yahuah's Priests. The temporariness of The Torah is implied in The Torah.

My view on Modern Israel in Bible Prophecy

I don't believe in traditional Dispensationalism, or Two House Theology, or Catholic and Mainline Protestant understandings of "Replacement Theology".  So what do I think about Modern Israel?

I agree that most of the Bible Prophecies that Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists want to cite as being about 1948 like Isaiah 11:11 are clearly about something far more Supernatural and Messianic, where they return in belief.  However I disagree with Rob Skiba that they are about the Millennium.  I think they are about the New Heaven and New Earth and the descent of New Jerusalem.

Well, Ezekiel 37 is an exception, that is the one directly linked to the Resurrection, so that is possibly about the Millennium, though I think it may be possible it'll take the entire Millennium for all of it to be fully fulfilled.  And then Ezekiel 38 is about what happens between the end of the Millennium and the White Throne Judgment.  And then Ezekiel 40-48 are about the New Heaven and New Earth.

Psalm 48 is about New Jerusalem.  I've already argued that Isaiah 65-66 define themselves as being about the New Heaven and New Earth.  Leviticus 26&Deuteronomy 29 is where Bible Prophecy about the regathering of Israel begins, they I have come to view as not fully finally fulfilled until the descent of New Jerusalem.

I have talked before about how The Millennium is not as Utopic as people are assuming it will be.  For Believers it'll certainly be better then the world is now.  But most of the World will be obeying Jesus out of Fear not Love during this time.  This is where I think Zechariah 14 ends.

The Rothschild involvement in the 1948 birth of modern Israel is grossly overstated by Conspiracy Theorists.  Some of them financially supported it, but they were not the masterminds of it.  And to this day some Rothschilds are still Anti-Zionists.

Anti-Zionist Christians like to say it can only be God doing it if it's blatantly Supernatural.  And when we remind them about Cyrus they dismiss that by saying that God would tell his people through his Prophets if he was going to do it that way.  Well I'm a Continuationist, and the fact is throughout the 19th and early 20th Century many Christians seemed to know the time of Israel's return was approaching, and history vindicated them.

God tells us it was Him who scattered them, even though to terrestrial eyes it was Gentile Nations.  So who says their return can't be done the same way?

The Roman Captivity was very much a repeat of the Babylonian Captivity, right down to events playing out on the same days.  Chad Schafer has been talking a lot about Egypt's overlooked significance to the Roman Captivity, well Egypt was very vital to the Babylonian Captivity as well.  Jeremiah tells us that many Jews went to Egypt after Jerusalem fell, and that is part of why Egypt was carried away into Captivity by Babylon.

So it makes sense that the Return from the Roman Captivity would be very similar to the return from the Babylonian Captivity.  Truman however was not the Cyrus of 1948 like he sought to claim to be, he had nothing to do with making it happen.  Great Britain was in the role of Cyrus, and it's King at this time interestingly had Arthur in his full name.  Great Britain cemented their status as a modern successor to Rome when they defeated Napoleon and erected the Wellington Arch.  Just as Cyrus had taken the throne of Nebuchadnezzar.

However another layer of Typology is that I see the Seven Years King David ruled from Hebron as a type of the Seven Year period over which much of Revelation will play out.  And the time David Ruled from Zion and Jerusalem a type of the Millennium, and the early Reign of Solomon, when he was doing well, as a type of the full Messianic Kingdom.  In which context it's interesting to remember that before that was the reign of King Saul.

Could Modern Israel's destiny be to become the House of Saul to the Returning Jesus's David?  It's interesting that the current Prime Minister is named Benjamin, after Saul's Tribe.  I also alluded to reasons based on Jeremiah 6 for associating modern Israel with Benjamin in a Revelation 12 theory I came to last year.  In which case it's interesting that Ishbosheth ruled in the Trans-Jordan, near Mount Hermon.

The secular Capital of Modern Israel is Tel-Aviv.  The Ancient City that Tel-Aviv is adjacent to is Joppa/Jaffa.  Acts 9:32-28 refers to Lydda as being nigh to Joppa.  Lydda is in the Hebrew Bible Lod which is identified as a town of Benjamin (1 Chronicles 8:12; Ezra 2:33; Nehemiah 7:37; 11:35).

It's interesting that most Ahskenazim (and to a lesser extend many Shephardi) families that claim descent from David, do so via Rashi who did so via Hillel The Elder.  Hillel claimed through his mother descent from David's son Shaphatiah by Avital.  But Tribal Identity was traditionally determined paternally, and Hillel's father was a Benjamite, since he was born in Babylonia he may have come from the same Benjamite clan that Esther and Mordecai did, which came from a relative of Saul.  Gamaliel was Hillel's grandson, Paul claimed to have studied at his feet, and we know Paul was a Benjamite and originally a namesake of Saul, could Paul have been a relative of the House of Hillel?

The Khazar myth about where the Ashkenazim come from can be easily debunked, like in this video by Chris White.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDWUZ6EqWHc

[Update: or this one from Casual Historian.]

There is a small truth to it in that yes some Khazars intermarried into Jewish families, so many Ashekanazim may have some Khazars in their ancestry, but that does not contradict also descending from Jews who were in Israel at the Time of Christ.

Some like Britam and Veilikovsky (in Beyond the Mountains of Darkness) have sought to claim Lost Tribes descent for the Khazars.  But I find it more interesting that Benjamin had a son named Rosh (Genesis 46:21), and that the name of Rosh can also be linked to the same region as Meshech and Tubal, which is the land where the Khazars emerged, between the Black and Caspian Seas (something Chris White has also talked about).

I obviously disagree with the aspects of Velikovsky's argument that involve reinterpreting where Assyria first took them, I've built much of this Blog on that they were taken to parts of eastern Iraq and northern Iran.  But it's also possible that just as some remnants of the northern Tribes existed in Judah, that some Benjamites might have been among those deported when Samaria fell.  When the division first happened the border was mostly Benjamite territory on Judah's side.  But later there were times were Israel was winning in it's wars with Judah and so the border moved further south.

There is at least one website out there seeking to argue the Spanish came from Benjamin.  What they wound up making is a strong argument for the Shaphardi Jews coming chiefly from Benjamin, but Shaphardi Jews are genetically distinct from the gentile populations of Spain in-spite of how much they may look the same.  Another connection between Benjamin and Spain is Paul himself who in Romans expressed a desire to go to Spain which later traditions say he did.

The term Mizrahi Jews refers to Jewish communities of Iraq/Persia, and the Mountain Jews also associated with the same region as the Khazzars and Rosh.  Also the Oral Traditions of the Mountain Jews claim they came specifically from Jerusalem.

As far as the Jewish communities of Iraq/Persia go, we know the family of Esther and Mordechai dwelt there coming from a relative of Saul.  And that the Descendants of Hillel were based there during the time the Babylonian Talmud was composed.  The Exilarchs (traditionally descendants of David via Zerubabel) were also in Iraq for a long time.  But the Rabbinic Jewish traditions about them skip right form when the TNAK ends to the time of Hadrian, maybe their claimed David descent was not unlike Hillel's.  At any-rate most families today claiming descent from the Exilarchs do so via a lot of intermingling with the descent from Rashi.

Temani/Yemenite Jews I theorize mainly descend from Simeon (probably from the clan of Jamin) Simeon and Levi were both destined to be scattered among the other tribes.

I also see a poetic logic in the early Jewish Communities of Rome (who existed at least as early as the first Pentacost) coming from Benjamin.   Given the wolf association of both.

I think some remnant of Judah may exist among them.  But mostly I think Judah went to Africa after 70 AD.  Though I also think the descendants of the half-siblings of Jesus, and of Jesus Apostles, inevitably became absorbed into gentile populations.

David promised Johnathon Ben Saul that his seed would be preserved.  And we see him keep that later when he spared Johnathon's son Mephibosheth from the killing of descendants of Saul done to appease the Gibeonites.  Often such promises correlate to that line having a role to play in Eschatology.

Benjamin was the only son born in the Promised Land.  Maybe that is a reason for it to make sense he would be the only one who's Nation at the time of the Regathering would be already in Israel.

Ephraim and The Fullness of The Gentiles

First off I want to make clear that unlike the likes of Chuck Missler and Chris White, I do believe the Lost Tribes have a role to play in The End Times.

What I want to object to here is the various variations of Two House theology that are predicated on tying Genesis 48 and Ezekiel 47 into Romans 9-11.

Now I am NOT a Darby style Dispensationist, I absolutely do believe that Gentile Believers are grafted into Israel.  But I also believe in the Uniqueness of The Church, we certainly have special promises that didn't exist for Pre Cross Believers.

Now there are some among these like Rob Skiba who will make clear they don't actually think you have to be a biological descendant of Abraham to be saved.  The problem is Romans 9-11 doesn't mention this third category he's imagined of Israelites who became Gentiles, it has just the two Olive Trees and the only grafting in mind is from the Gentile Tree to the Israel Tree, no implication of a past grafting going the other way.

What people overlook in Ezekiel 37 is Ephraim and Judah also have friends who are joined to them.  They correlate to the Gentiles Grafted in in Romans 9-11, not Ephraim. Translations have a tendency to obscure this.  But it's significant that Ephraim and Judah both have companions, not just Ephraim.

We are grafted into Israel, but not into one of the original 13 Tribes.   We are a 14th Tribe.  In Ezekiel 47 we are Yahuah-Shammah.

Rob likes to declare there is no such thing as a Gentile believer, and that Gentile means "out of Covenant".  The problem is he's accepting the very thinking Paul dedicated this Epistle to refuting.  Paul calls some of the believers reading this epistle Gentiles in 11:13.

This idea of Jews using a term like Gentile or Goyim to refer to all Non Jews in a way that excludes them is something that appears in The New Testament because it developed during the Intertestimental period, but it does NOT exist in The Hebrew Bible.  The problem is translations have gone and inserted it into the Hebrew Bible.

So the Hebrew word Goyim/Goyi which means Nation/Nations often gets translated in the KJV and other English Bibles as Gentiles or Heathen.  Then people will use their Strongs and see that same word is also nations and concludes Nations=Gentiles.  The problem is it's really the other way around.  The actual Hebrew words for foreigner or alien are usually translated stranger.  And a word study of Stranger shows that being one was never a barrier to salvation or citizenship, but being one spiritually was not good.

To prove this we can start with Genesis 12 when God first makes his promise to Abraham.  In verse 2 he says "I will make of thee a Great Goyi".  In Chapter 35 verse 11 God tells Jacob.  "be fruitful and multiply; a Goyi and a company of Goyim shall be of thee".

But the clincher is Exodus 19:6, at the giving of the Covenant.  "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy goyi. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

So no, Goyim does not meant "out of Covenant".

When Jesus said he came only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, He meant the Jews.  He spoke during His ministry to those Jews who were spiritually Lost.  But John's Gospel also says at the beginning His own received Him not so the opportunity to be grafted in came to the Gentiles.

Through out The New Testament both Jesus and Paul were opposing this xenophobic attitude towards "gentiles" that had developed.  Romans 1 verses 18-32 is a rhetorical rant.  If you actually find yourself cheering on that rant, you are the problem.  Because the rest of the Epistle is dedicated to refuting everything said in that rant.  There is definitely real sinful behavior in mind there, but it's the Reprobate doctrine Baptists build on this passage that Paul is declaring wrong.

In the verse that is describing a very specific kind of male Homosexual activity.  The word translated "Against Nature" is "Para Phusis"  a technical Greek term that has it's origins in Plato's proto Gnostic Cosmology laid out in Timaus.  It is also used by Philo, a contemporary of the NT era but also slightly older (he wrote some works at least as early as 10 AD) who was a Hellenistic Jewish Philosopher greatly influenced by Plato.  Whether or not he was the first Jew to use the term we can't be sure.

This exact same phrase is what Paul uses in Romans 11 to describe Gentiles being grafted in "unatrually" into the Tree of Israel.  That is God doing something, totally rejecting the notion that doing something "unatrual" is inherently a Sin.  In fact it is the Sin nature that is natural.

So clearly everything about Paul's intent here was people who in no way Naturally descended from Jacob being grafted into Israel.  Nor are they being let in because of some mystical loop hole.  So I don't care if the corrupt Septuagint uses almost the exact same phrase translated "Fullness of The Gentiles" in Genesis 48.

Paul does use a Genesis Patriarch as a type picture of the Gentiles he is talking about, that patriarch is Esau, he quotes the same Esau reference found in Malachi with the intent of refuting how Calvanists view that verse, but regardless Calvanists still don't get it.  I don't think it's a coincidence that many Ancient traditions hint at Edom becoming Rome.  Since Skiba believes in Jasher, he should be even more certain of that then me, because of it's Zepho story.

Some might also seek to take Jesus reference to a Fruitful Nation as a reference to Ephraim meaning Fruitful. Jesus was speaking Hebrew, but Ephraim strictly mean double fruit, what Jesus would have said was likely closer to Ephrath/Ephratah  location in Judah, which Psalm 132 identifies with Zion, and New Jerusalem is the Heavenly Zion.

It's funny because Two House theology usually takes offense at using Judah/Jew and Israel as synonyms, and insist IF Israel is ever used of one Kingdom it's the North.  Except in Romans 9-11 where there Israel means Judah and the Lost Tribes are the Gentiles.

Besides Dan I fully reject the theories of the Lost Tribes going West.  The Biblical clues all take them East,(Follow Up Post).  And many wonder where in Revelation is the return of the Lost Tribes because their bias is to look West.  I see it quite clearly in Chapter 16 after the pouring out of the Sixth Bowl, the Kings of The East (and some from all four corners because today everyone is scattered somewhat) are gathered together at the Hill of Megiddo, a Northern Kingdom territory.

I believe the temporary partial spiritual blindness Israel is under includes the Lost Tribes, it's not just Judah.

Let's compare the two Asian nations where it is currently the most Legal to be a Christian, and thus easiest to document and observe The Gospel's success there.  My studies of the history and DNA evidence lead me to conclude South Korea probably has little if any Lost Tribes ancestry, and mainly descends from Javan.  But Japan I think had a very strong case for being a Lost Tribe.

In South Korea 30% of the Population is Christian, most of them some form of "Protestant", their capital has 11 of the world's 12 largest Christian Congregations and they're second only to America in sending out missionaries.

Japan is only about 1% Christian and most of those are Catholic.  But none the less looking at the minority of the minority can be fascinating just as it is to look at the Messianic communities in Judah.  Japan has a Non-Church Movement that is like the House Church movement but goes back to the 1800s predating the current American House Church movement.  And a spin off of that is the Makuya movement, which is essentially a Japanese Hebrew Roots movement of sorts.  Japan also has 3 Mormon Temples while the more Christianity friendly South Korea has only 1.  Which I make note of simply because Mormonism also has an Israelite Identity emphasis in it's theology.

So Japan like Israel has a spiritual blindness but also a remnant.  The DNA evidence for the Japan theory overlaps with argument for Tibet and Burma, Y Chromosome Haplogroup D.

And then I also see Lost Tribes descendants in the Kurds and possibly many other populations of Iran.  The Kurds are most Sunni Muslin when Iran is mostly Shia Muslim.

I no longer believe in Gaps in Daniel chapters 9 and 11

I've held that view in the past, but I've slowly come to abandon it.  For that reason I changed the name of this blog, I sadly don't know a way to create a full new URL without rending all existing links to this Blog dead.

I had cited Hippolytus as an early source on Gaps in Daniel.  Thing is he's the only Early Church Father to hold this view, he seems to have invented it.  And while I still agree with him more then most Church Fathers on a number of End Times issues, his bizarre views on the Song of Solomon hurts his credibility.  And his view on when the 69th Week ended does not agree with anyone today, he ended it at Jesus Birth.

I first started work on this 70th Week study when I was still against seeing the 70th Week as already fulfilled.  But as you can see my open minded study of the evidence lead me to become convinced that yes the 70th Week was fulfilled from 30-37 AD.  I talked more on that subject here.

I have also shown that Daniel 11:36-45 was about Augustus.

Gaps have nothing to do with making Daniel 2 or 7 End times, they are in nature incredibly broad symbolic visions of all history.  But the visions in Hebrew Daniel are usually more narrow in scope.  The way in which Revelation draws on Daniel is only really explicitly to Daniel 7 and to some extent 12.  That Daniel 12 is jumping from the first to second Advent isn't a Gap really, it is again a broader in scope prophecy.

Matthew 24 is indisputably End Times.  The basis for making material from Hebrew Daniel end times relevant is Jesus saying "The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel The Prophet".  Thing is while terminology similar to that is arguably used in the last verse of Daniel 9, the exact phrase is used in Daniel only in 11 and 12, and in 11 it's not the part any reasonable person argues is before the gap but in the part clearly about Antiochus Epiphanes.

Now I do think it's possible that the 70th Week and Daniel 11:36-45 could have end times relevance via Double Fulfillment.  And I think to an extent even Daniel 12's End Times relevance is via double fulfillment.  But the only thing I see absolutely required to happen again is what Jesus specifically refereed to.

But in the case of the 70th Week I've come to view that as only being applicable if the entire 70 Weeks is fulfilled twice, which I have argued a possible model for on this blog.  If that model doesn't bear out, then Daniel 9 is not End Times relevant.

If Daniel 11's relevance is via double fulfillment  Then when it starts being End Times relevant may have to be pushed sooner, because again it's the phrase "Abomination of Desolation" that is the key to Daniel's End Times relevance.

One thought I just started considering is that maybe two End Times Abomination of Desolation events will happen, one that seems more like a direct repeat of what Epiphanes did at the start of the 70th Week, and then what II Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13 depicts at the Midway Point.  (Update Sept2016: I've now considered an entirely new take on the Abomination of Desolation in Daniel 11.)

Going back to Daniel 9:24, let's look again at what the purpose for the 70 Weeks are.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

It is commonly argued that the Second Advent is required for this to be fully fulfilled, that certain aspects of this clearly aren't fulfilled already.   In fact I've even seen some Christians try to remove the First Advent from this altogether, like Chris White.  To me that grossly undervalues what happened in 30 AD in a way no Christian, no matter how Futurist and Premillennial they are, should be willing to do.

If you think "make an end of sins" means no one will be sinning anymore then you have to move the end of the 70 Weeks to after the Millennium, not before it.  I would be curious to hear someone argue such a theory.  This is referring to Jesus paying the price for Sin on The Cross, when He said "It Is Finished".

Some take "seal up the vision and prophecy" to mean no more Prophecies left to be fulfilled.  Again you have to move the 70th Week to after the Millennium in that case.

I think that the anointing of the most Holy can be seen as fulfilled at Pentecost.

Every argument that the first advent wasn't enough to fulfill that requires an interpretation that places the fulfillment after not before the Millennium.

I feel there is a perfectly very real sense in which all those details were satisfied in 30-37 AD.

In my past study on the first 69 Weeks proving they ended in 30 AD.  I justified the gap concept not with the usual Pre-Tirb/Dispensationalist the Gap is the Church Age logic.  But by arguing that since it revolved around The Temple, the Gap was from when the Second Temple lost it's Holy Anointing when the Veil was Torn till when the future Temple will be consecrated.  I brought that up in some other posts too.

I feel ashamed of that argument now, because it implies what the Veil being Torn achieved is gonna be undone.  I won't remove that argument from that post because it's intent was to refute Chris White which it still does  At any-rate when studying the possible dual fulfillment I realized it didn't revolve around The Temple as much as I thought.  In fact it's barely mentioned at all.

Israel's Spiritual Blindness is temporary

I'm not a Dispensationalsit anymore.  I no longer view The Church and Israel as completely separate.  And I even agree that the "Synagogue of Satan" refers to the non Christian Jewish Religion (not unbelieveing Jews as individuals).

But I suggest you remember when reading that Isaac and Ishmael analogy in Galatians that Ishmael did have a promise and an inheritance too.

Romans 11 makes clear after all the talk about them being enemies of The Gospel currently that the spiritual blindness on them will be lifted.  Verses 25 and 26.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Paul makes a distinction through Romans 9-11 between physical Israel and Spiritual Israel. But saying all Spiritual Israel will be Saved would be a pointless statement because you are already saved if you're spiritual Israel.

Hosea 5:15 says "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."  Return implies he left it.  This verse is a strong Old Testament witness to two Advents.  But people who want to deny a future Salvation of Israel ignore it.

Stephen's sermon in Acts 7 wasn't finished.  You can deduce how it was going to end by seeing his pattern was that Israel always got it wrong the first time but right the second time.

The other places where Jesus says something similar to this could be seen as referring to the Triumphal entry.  But Matthew 23 is taking place after that.  Verse 37.

"For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

That and Hosea above are two witness for implying Israel accepting Jesus will trigger his return.  Pre-Tirbbers and even usually Pre-Wrathers and fellow Mid-Tribbers tend to see that as the Revelation 19 return not when he comes in the Clouds. Well I think there is truth to that too, Israel's salvation will happen in phases over the course of the 70th Week.  But.....

Keep Paul's fullness of the Gentiles connections for when Israel's blindness is lifted in mind as you read Luke 21.  Now Luke 21 is about 70 AD until verse 24 where Jerusalem is trodden under foot of The Gentiles.

"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

 The times of the Gentiles being fulfilled and the fullness of the Gentiles coming in are probably the same thing.  Revelation 11 talks about the last three and a half years Jerusalem will be trodden under foot of The Gentiles.  It's the same time period as the ministry of The Witnesses, clearly to me the first half of the 70th Week.

After The Witnessess are killed, and lay dead for three and a half days, then are risen and taken up to Heaven and an earthquake happens, the people of the City give glory to God.  This is new in Revelation, earlier people didn't repent or praise God no matter what.

Then the next thing after they give glory to God is The Last Trumpet Sounds.

Now many people fear this doctrine that Israel will be Saved is setting the stage to trick Christians into accepting any Messiah accepted by Jews.  NONE of the Dispensaitonlists I've followed are ignorant that the Abomination of Desolation happens before Israel's salvation.  And they all know that Jesus return isn't something a Believer will miss if they aren't watching the News at that moment.  We will be taken to where he is.

This Generation shall not pass

From Matthew 24 is one of the most debated details of Bible Prophecy.

The Preterist view is the most obviously wrong, in saying Jesus must have meant the people currently listening to him, they ignore the entire context in which that quote is made.

What I want to discus here is the disagreement among Futurists about whether or not it's valid to see this statement as being about modern Israel.

Throughout history Christians have wanted to believe they are living in the last generation.  Those of us living post 1948 feel the main thing that makes our belief the End Times will happen soon more legit is that for most of that history the lack of a nation of Israel in the Holy Land forced Bible Prophecy believers to allegorize everything to make it fit their own time.  The Temple is clearly in view in Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 11.

But none of that makes Israel's founding in 1948 a specific fulfillment of Prophecy.  And I agree with the critics of Dispensationalism and Zionisism that the major Bible Prophecies we keep trying to make sound like they're about 1948 are clearly in their Biblical Context about Israelites returning in Belief, and from a Christian POV modern Israel is still in Unbeleif.  Those Prophecies are really mainly about either stuff that happens after Armageddon and/or during the Millennium, or the descent of New Jerusalem.

As for Matthew 24, the debate is if the "This Generation" just refers to the ones who see the Signs Jesus had been describing?  That seems like the plainest reading, but the Mystery is the Parable of The Fig Tree bares investigating.  Matthew 24:32-34

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Why see the blossoming of this Fig Tree as about Israel?

First there was a curious incident involving a real live Fig Tree earlier in Chapter 21 after Jesus first arrived in Jerusalem for this Passover season.   In which Jesus curses a Fig Tree to never bear fruit again, and then it withers and dies.  At face value this story interprets itself as being just a demonstration of the power of Faith.  But why demonstrate it in such an odd way?  Why not demonstrate it by giving life rather then taking it?

Commentators of Mathew's Gospel like Chuck Missler like to view Matthew 13 as when Israel's leadership rejects Jesus as Messiah.  If the Fig Tree is in some way a symbol of Israel, Jesus unstated intent may have been for his disciples to realize it's up to them to use the power of their Faith to restore life the Fig Tree that Jesus just withered.

Is there a basis in the Hebrew Scriptures for using the Fig Tree symbolically in such a way?

The first reference in The Bible to a fig trees is in Deuteronomy, that passage like many others is just listing them among various trees.

Judges 9:10-11 uses the Fig Tree as a symbol of Gideon, symbols of national leaders often becomes symbols of the nation.

1 Kings 4:25 describes the nation's peace and prosperity by saying "And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon."  The Fig Tree is affiliated with Israel's prosperity.  2 Kings 18:41 repeats this imagery in the days of Hezekiah, the same situation is again repeated in Isaiah 36-39.  And it's used again in Jeremiah 5:17.  Later Jeremiah 8:13 says "I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them."

So all this together makes a re-blooming of a Fig Tree a good symbol for Israel's restoration.

Now to show this interpretation is not purely the result of Darby and other Nineteenth Century Dispensationalists.  The apocryphal Apocalypse of Peter which was probably written in the Second Century and was considered canon by many early Christians.  Clearly states the Olive Tree is Israel.  That writer's agenda in that identification may have been different from anyone today.  But the point is it existed.

You might object "Even so, it's about Spiritual restoration not nationally in unbelief".  That is true, but the two are linked.  Israel's Spiritual Blindness discussed in Romans 9-11 did not fully overtake them over night.  It was there from the Birth of The Church, but still the Early Church was mostly Jewish when it started, and in the region remained predominately Jewish until well after the Bar-Kochba revolt.

After Suileman began rebuilding the Wall of Jerusalem from 1534-1541, Zionisim was born in 1561 thanks to Joseph Nasi.  And not long after in the wake of the Reformation, especially in the English Speaking world, Christian Zionism is born thanks to men like Thomas Brightman.

Likewise since 1948 Messianic Jews have gown in number greatly.  I'm a Dispensationalsit sort of but not a strict one like Pre-Tribers are.

However I will say the fact that it's first and foremost Spiritual means it may be an error to link it to some easily definable Geo-Political calendar date like 1948, or retaking Jerusalem in 1967, or even the yet Future rebuilding of The Temple.  It may be referring to the Spiritual Blindness being significantly lifted when the Abomination of Desolation happens. In which case a maximum number for a Generation is not needed.

But I refute the usual argument against Date-Setting here.

What number should be a Biblical Generation?

Hal Lindsay popularized 40 based on the wondering in The Wilderness.  F. Kenton Beshore has suggested 70-80 based on Psalm 90:10.  We could also use 120 based on Genesis 6, as well as that being about roughly the Maximum people can live to today, and it's how long Moses lived, and about the length of the combined reigns of Saul, David and Solomon.  But both Moses siblings were older then him and died earlier the same year.  And Jehoiada lived to 130.

There are also dates older then 1948 one could choose if they wanted to.  1897 is considered the Birth of the modern Zionist movement.  120 years from that is 2017, 2017 is popular in some currently trendy Speculation based on a flawed understanding of Revelation 12 which I've addressed before and am highly skeptical of.

1904 was an important year for reasons having to do with William Hechler's efforts and that being the beginning of a major wave of Jewish immigration to the region.  120 years from that is 2024.

In 1909 the city of Tel-Aviv the secular Capital of Modern Israel (or at-least the city the international community recognizes as it's capital) was founded by the ruins of Jaffa the ancient port city of Dan.  120 years from that is 2029.

The Balfour Declaration was in 1917, 120 years from then would be 2037.

1933 was the controversial transfer agreement, 120 years from that would be 2053.

1948+40 was 1988 which notoriously didn't happen. The 70-80 theory gives about 2018-2028 which lines up interestingly with some earlier numbers.  120 years from 1948 would be 2068.

1967 Israel recaptures Jerusalem, the Jewish construction in the Old City was officially allowed around Passover of 1969.  Adding 40 years was 2007-2009 which was nothing.  Adding 70-80 gets 2037/9-2047/9.  Adding 120 years gets 2087-2089.

So it'll be interesting to see how those possible dates line up with other speculative calculations.

I'm a Dispensationalist, but a different kind

I agree that not all saved are part of The Church, and The Church age is from Pentecost to The Rapture.  I agree the Church is a distinct Covenant from Israel, but not as completely separate a people often say.  Their destinies are linked.

I agree The Church is distinct from the Mosaic Covenant, and the Circumcision Covenant of Genesis 17.  Most Dipsensaitonlists agree that Abraham's Genesis 12 makes all of the Saved the spiritual Seed of Abraham (including those not part of either Israel or The Church).

However I do believe The Church is derived from the Genesis 15 Covenant just as much as the Mosaic one is.  And Jesus' promise to the 12 to rule the 12 Tribes of Israel makes The Church linked to the Davidic Covenant.

People get confused by what Paul says about The Church being a Mystery (Mysterion in Greek) in Ephesians 1:9 and 3:3-9, and other passages.  It does not mean The Church is completely absent from The Hebrew Bible, or not originally part of God's Plan.  Mysterion means that which was hidden.  Pieces of The Church doctrine are all over the Hebrew Bible, from the Pentecost Holy Day itself, to The Rapture allusions in Isaiah 26 and Joel 2:15-16, to the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31, And Joel 2:28-32 foretelling the out pouring of The Holy Ghost.  And of Course the Brides who are types of The Church like Rebecca and Ruth.

In II Samuel 7 David is told his Son not him will build The Temple.  This is viewed as a double fulfillment Prophecy, Solomon and his Temple as the first, and The Messiah Ben-David and the Messianic Temple described in Ezekiel 40-47 as the true final fulfillment.

1 Kings 5:3 tells us the reason David couldn't build The Temple was because he fought Wars.  Solomon's name is derived from Shalom, the Hebrew word for Peace.  The Temple has to be built by The Prince of Peace.  It occurs to me a potential problem exists with The Christian view of Messianic Prophecy that I'm surprised I haven't seen Jewish critics point out.  Jesus fulfills the roles of David and Solomon both.  How can that be possible?

I think the way Jesus gets around this is He builds His Temple first, then fights The Wars.  And I think that's part of the reason for the gap between the Two Advents.  The last thing he does at the First Advent is lay the foundation for The Temple.  The first thing he'll do at the Second Advent is remove his Temple to a safe place before His Wrath is poured out.

That The Church is The Temple of God is an important part of New Testament theology.  But because of the errors made by most Dispensationalists, they fail to see the Messianic Temple foretold in The Hebrew Bible as that same Temple.  But I have argued elsewhere that Ezekiel 40-48 corresponds to Revelation 21-22 not 20.

I can add to that the question of who resides in Jerusalem in Ezekiel?  It's not part of what's allotted to any of the 12 Tribes.  And even the portions of The Holy District given to the Priests, Levites and The Prince (probably David based on Ezekiel 33-36) are distinct from Jerusalem.  The simple answer might be that as The Capitol it has people of every Tribe.  Well that agrees with my belief that it is The Church, The Church has people from all of The Tribes as well as many Gentiles.

We are grafted into Israel as Romans 11 says, but not into one of the already existing Tribes, we're like a 14th Tribe.

None of that contradicts there being a literal structure with the design Ezekiel saw.  But that Tabernacle is the Heavenly One having descended to Earth (I believe it'll be on or near Mt Gezrim).  And has always existed, Moses saw it in The Wilderness, John saw it on Patmos.  And I suspect it had been on Earth once before, in The Garden of Eden before The Fall.  So it's construction isn't part of Prophecy.

As for how this effects the Rapture timing debate.  I agree with Chuck Missler that The Church is a unique entity.  I disagree that God can't or won't deal with Israel (and thus begin the 70th Week) while The Church is still here.  He dealt with Israel in 70 AD and and has again in 1948 and 1967.

He is correct based on Romans 11:25 that Israel's National Spiritual Blindness won't be lifted until The Fullness of The Gentiles has come in.  But that Blindness is only partial and does no contradict the 144,000 being Church Age believers.  When the Abomination of Desolation happens is when the blindness begins to be lifted, when they see that what Jesus foretold was correct and flee as he warned them to.

Chuck Missler is correct that up to verse 24 Luke 21 is about 70 AD.  Where Preterists stumble is in verse 24, after describing the captivity and diaspora.  "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." and then The Second Coming begins in the following verses, verse 27 makes clear he comes on a Cloud not a White Horse, so it's The Rapture.  Preterists want to make that "trodden under foot" period end with the Fall of Jerusalem even though Jesus clearly says that's where it begins.

The Rapture connection makes it very logical to see this "times of the gentiles" as corresponding to Paul's "fullness of the gentiles".  Luke is often defined as the most Paulian of The Gospels.

Revelation 11 describes the end of this period.  It makes clear that during the first half of the 70th Week while The Temple will be standing the Outer Court will still be Trodden under the foot of The Gentiles.  This is also clearly contemporary with the ministry of The Two Witnesses.  And after this 3.5 year period is the 7th Trumpet.

So that's pretty solid proof that the first half of the 70th Week is still The Church Age.

Hippolytus of Rome (170–235), and Jewish sources on Gaps in Daniel

Hippolytus of Rome (170–235), was the only one of the Early Church Fathers to really write in depth on Eschatology.  He was indisputably Futurist and Premillennial .  But his understanding of the Return of Christ was also what we'd call today Post-Trib.  I'm sorry Pre-Tirbbers but your desire to make it sound like the Church Fathers were pre-trib by taking their quotes on "imminence" out of context simply fails when reading everything they wrote.

I'm not bothered by the Church Fathers being wrong on the Rapture.  Daniel 12 foretells that Knowledge of God's word would increase.  And the Post-Trib error is the unavoidable consequence of replacement theology.  Jesus returning more then once simply makes no sense if you don't understand there are two Covenant peoples he's returning for.  This replacement theology was born out of the Church's reactions to the persecutions they faced from Jews during the Bar-Kochba revolt.  These latter Christians weren't able to follow the example of Stephen.  I said this before in my post on Ephream the Syrian.

Hippolytus like most early Christians believed the Witnesses were Enoch and Elijah.  He believed Rome had to fall first and the 10 Horns were Kingdoms that would arise out of Rome's fall. Those are things I feel he was right on.

He also believed The Antichrist would be a Jew of The Tribe of Dan, and would claim to be The Jewish Messiah.  He may be right on that too.

But he was also a date setter.  He had an understanding of Chronology (partly based on the problematic Septuagint) that told him Jesus was crucified in the 5500th from Creation.  And so he believed the Sabbath Millennium would start in 530 AD.  That he didn't date set within his own life time shows a lack of personal bias.  His date was wrong of course, but admittedly during the time period leading up to that date, the Western Empire had just fallen, and there were Messianic Samaritan and Jewish Revolts in the Holy Land.  If there were people at the time familiar with him, it might have seemed like his predictions were coming to pass.

Among the ideas that critics of Dispensationalism like to accuse of being made up by Darby and others in the 1800s, is the idea of gaps in certain Old Testament Prophecies, particularly Daniel 9 and 11.  And I've seen them abuse quotes from Hippolytus to try and back that up.

However reading his commentary on Daniel shows, that he viewed the first 69 Weeks as ending with Jesus, but that the 70th was yet Future.  And likewise in Daniel 11, he viewed the first 35 verses as being The Hellenistic age, but that verses 36-45 were about a yet future Antichrist.

39. Thus, then, does the prophet set forth these things concerning the Antichrist, who shall be shameless, a war-maker, and despot, who, exalting himself above all kings and above every god, shall build the city of Jerusalem, and restore the sanctuary. Him the impious will worship as God, and will bend to him the knee, thinking him to be the Christ. He shall cut off the two witnesses and forerunners of Christ, who proclaim His glorious kingdom from heaven, as it is said: "And I will give (power) unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." As also it was announced to Daniel: "And one week shall confirm a covenant with many; and in the midst of the week it shall be that the sacrifice and oblation shall be removed"--that the one week might be shown to be divided into two. The two witnesses, then, shall preach three years and a half; and Antichrist shall make war upon the saints during the test of the week, and desolate the world, that what is written may be fulfilled: "And they shall make the abomination of desolation for a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

The source I copied that from has apparent typos I chose not to correct.  I assume "Test of the week" should mean "rest of the week".

What might surprise one even more is to discover some Rabbinic Jewish sources who agree the 70th Week could be yet future, as well as the last part of Daniel 11.

Britam is a Rabbinic Jewish website that supports it's own unique form of British Israelism, but without any of Christian aspects of the idea.  I don't desire to endorse British Israelism, but the site's commentaries on Daniel 9 and 11 are interesting.

[Daniel 9:27] AND HE SHALL CONFIRM THE COVENANT WITH MANY FOR ONE WEEK: AND IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK HE SHALL CAUSE THE SACRIFICE AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE, AND FOR THE OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS HE SHALL MAKE IT DESOLATE, EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION, AND THAT DETERMINED SHALL  BE POURED UPON THE DESOLATE.

These verses are also applicable to future events leading up to the Messianic Age.

And

Until now the account has quite faithfully followed the historical developments that did indeed occur exactly as described. From here on Scripture seems to depart somewhat and enter another future realm.
In effect we may say that this present chapter of Daniel although apparently dedicated to the Maccabee Period and what preceded it in effect is proto-typical. It is referring to the end times and using historical events as a pattern for future end-time prophecy.

They don't see Jesus in the first 69 weeks of course, but that's not the point I'm seeking to prove here.

Update September 2015: I no longer agree with the message of this post.  A I have explained here.

It is OK for a Dispensationalsit to be critical of Israel.

I saw someone make a blog posts a few weeks ago trying to explain reason a Christian should be Pro-Israel even if their not Dipsensaitonalist.

I am a Supporter of Israel's right to their Land.  But I feel like saying that you can believe God's Covenant with the Nation of Israel still stands and admit modern Israel's government can be corrupt.

Now as a Libertarian I feel to an extent that Americans shouldn't be criticizing other Governments at all.  We should worry about our own Nation which is very evil right now and has been for decades, the Party doesn't matter.

What really bugs me however is seeing Jews including Israelis, who criticize the Israeli Government or show sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians, being written off as self hating Jews.  As a believer in the ideals America's Founding Fathers fought for, I believe the proof of a true Patriot is speaking out against your Government when you feel they've done wrong.

I agree that Romans 11 teaches that Israel shall be Saved as a nation.  But we are currently still in the Romans 10 Dispensation, they are currently still Enemies of the Gospel.

Ancient Israel had Evil corrupt Rulers constantly, Modern Israel is certainly going to do better then they did.

I agree there is evidence God supernaturally intervened in the Six Day War on Israel's behalf.  But he intervened on Ahab's behalf too.  That intervention is because of his Promise to Abraham, but it's not an endorsement of the leadership.

I agree that Satan wants The World to hate Israel.  But I also believe one of his tools to make that happen is the Evil with Israels' own Government.

Now you'll never see agree with those who believe Zionism period is Evil.  Or endorsing Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories lie the Khazar myth, of Holocaust denial, or the Protocols of Zion hoax, no suggesting Mossad had anything to do with 9/11 (that was all CIA).  But Israel's government is just as prone the natural corruption all Governments are prone too.  Which can include False Flag Terrorism.

We are not Appointed to Wrath

1 Thessalonians 5:9.

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"

It may surprise many people that I didn't even cover this in my main post against Post-Trib. The real difference between Post-Trib and the other major views is how we view the nature of The Church and Israel, and how that overlaps with how we view the sequence of The Resurrection.  But this distinction about Wrath is often cited as a favorite Proof Text on the issue.

To me the Dispensational view of this verse is fairly well backed by Mid-SeventiethWeek arguments.  And the two Pre- views weaken the usefulness of this by misunderstanding just how much of Revelation is the Wrath of God.

By viewing when we're taken out as Between the Trumpets and Bowls, and using parallels between the 7th Trumpet and Revelation 14 to classic Rapture passages to back that up.  The argument that this verse reveals something about the Timing of The Rapture makes sense.  But I can't see a Post-Tribber being impressed by the way Pre-Wrathers presents their chronology, and certainly not by Pre-Tribbers who don't place the Rapture in Revelation at all.

Thing is however, I cannot in all honestly consider the Post-Trib answers to this verse (of which there are two I can think of) completely invalid.

1. It doesn't mean we're not on Earth during the Pouring out of Wrath, but simply that we're protected from the Wrath.

Indeed the first Bowl specifically says it only affects those who take the Mark.  But no such qualifier exists with the other Bowls, and I can't see believers being unaffected by them without explicit divine intervention that Revelation 16 doesn't mention for them.  I believe the First Bowl is directly linked to the mark to show it happens soon after The mark is introduced.

But my interpretation of that is hardly doctrinal proof against that possible Post-Trib view.

2. It's not eschatological at all, Wrath here simply means Hell or The Lake of Fire, God's eternal Anger against Sinners.

On the one hand, being in 1 Thessalonians 5 gives a context linked to The Rapture and End Times.

But on the other, some uses of the word Wrath in non eschatological contexts (even of the more Specific Wrath of God) do support that view.  Particularly John 3:36  "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.".  And they also point out the fuller context of the verse in 1 Thessalonians 5 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

So even though eschatology is in mind a little earlier.  That Post-Trib interpretation of that verse is doctrinally solid.

So those are the only two options I can think of they have.  Unless they break the traditional definition of Post-Trib in some way.

There are actually two completely different Greek words translated Wrath in the New Testament.  Orge (Strong# 3709) and Thumos (Strong# 2372).  Unfortunately my study of them hasn't really revealed any compelling common denominators in how they're used to distinguish between them mystically, at least not one to help the Dispensational case against Post-Trib.  Both are used in Revelation, and both are used with "of God".

Orge is the one used in both 1 Thessalonians 5:9 (every occurrence of Wrath in Thessalonians actually) and John 3:36.  As well as Romans 2:5's reference to the "Day of Wrath".

In Revelation.

 Thumos is the one used every-time you see Wrath in chapter 14-16:1, both when referring to God's Wrath and the "Wrath of her Whoredom" referring to the Whore of Babylon, which also occurs in 18:3.  It's also Thumos used of The Devil's Wrath in 12:12

Revelation 16:19 used both for the "fierceness of his wrath" against Babylon.

But in both Revelation 6 and 11, in the wake of both the Sixth Seal and Seventh Trumpet, Ogre is the word for Wrath used.

I'm afraid I reluctantly (since it doesn't suit my agenda) have to admit we can't solidly build Prophetic doctrine on the references to Wrath.

Now that the "Day of the LORD" refers specifically to the Second Half of Daniel's 70th Week is probably still a more solid argument.  And it's possible link to the "Day of Wrath", which would be a more solid chronological reference to Wrath.

Zephaniah 1:15-18 refers to "the day of the LORD'S wrath".  And 1 Thessalonian 5 also earlier refers to the Day of The Lord.    Both of the only times the NT speaks of a "Day of Wrath" in Romans 2:5 and Revelation 6:17 the Greek word is Ogre.

The Pre-Wrath camp might feel it backs up their view, the Sixth Seal being the only time Revelation mention the Day of Wrath.  But the fact remains that you can't build doctrine on what's said by fallible humans.  Interestingly the book of Job which I point to to make that point also has two references to the "Day of Wrath", in 20:28 and 21:30.  When Joel discuses the Sixth Seal event in 2:28-32 he clearly says this is BEFORE the "Day of he LORD'", not during it or when it starts, but before.

Knowledge shall be increased

Daniel 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

 The "knowledge shall be increased" is often taken out of context to just be about the increase in Scientific Knowledge we see in the modern world.  But Chuck Missler likes to point out the context here is clearly about Knowledge of God's Word.  Indeed it should not surprise us that these two things go together.

The thing I want to say here is, that this is reason against refuting any new Biblical interpretation or insight purely on the grounds that it's brand new.  Especially not when it comes to Prophecy.

So that's why I don't care that clearly the Post-Trib understanding of how 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24 relates to Revelation 19 was the one clearly taught by the Early Church fathers and all Christian teachers before the Reformation.  Regardless of what Pre-Tribbers try to take from their misuse of the quotes on "Imminence".

I think lots of important new insights in Bible Prophecy are potentially being made.   Like Jeremiah 49 and the Hidden Prophecies in The Psalms.

Until fairly recently access to the word was limited, even before the Catholic Church outright made lay people reading the word for themselves a crime, it was uncommon to be literate.  And the fact that having Chapter and Verse divisions didn't even exist till very recently made studying the word a lot more difficult for most generations.

Now we can use computers to do key word or phrase searches, and checking the Greek and Hebrew is easier then ever.  Some people hate the ramifications of studying Scripture in that way, like Alan Kurshner.  And we should be careful, but the fact is things like that are exactly what Daniel 12:4 was about.

Ephraem the Syrian

I decided I should address the matter of Ephraem the Syrian.  A work attributed to the 4th Century Ephraem the Syrian is popularly cited by Pre-Tirbbers in response to the accusation from Post-Tribbers (and non Futurists) that the idea of The Rapture as a separate event from the Second Coming of Revelation 19 is purely the invention of John Nelson Darby in the 19th Century.

To me it is ultimately absolutely irrelevant how much Extra-Biblical support a position has. 

I believe new insights into Scripture can happen.  It wasn't clear to The Jews (and still isn't) that The Messiah has two Advents.

The cited Ephraem text is controversial.  There is more then one Translation based on different manuscripts and they don't agree with each other.  And it was probably not actually written by Ephraem but is rather a Seventh Century work attributed to him.

The texts commonly cited in Rapture disputes is the Rhoades translation of a Latin manuscript.

On the Last Times, the Anti-Christ, and the End of the World A Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem and Isidor of Sevilla (Caspari's title of the sermon is: Eine Ephraem Syrus und Isidor von Sevilla beigelegte Predigt über die letzten Zeiten, den Antichrist und das Ende der welt.)

The English translation of the Latin text in C.P. Caspari's Briefe, Abhandlungen und Predigten aus den zwei letzten Jahrhunderten des kirchlichen Altertums und dem Anfang des Mittelater (Christiania, 1890, pp. 208-20) was provided by Cameron Rhoades, instructor of Latin at Tyndale Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX.

Section I Dearly beloved brothers, believe the Holy Spirit who speaks in us. We have already told you that the end of the world is near, the consummation remains. Has not faith withered away among mankind? How many foolish things are seen among youths, how many crimes among prelates, how many lies among priests, how many perjuries among deacons! There are evil deeds among the ministers, adulteries in the aged, wantonness in the youths—in mature women false faces, in virgins dangerous traces! In the midst of all this there are the wars with the Persians, and we see struggles with diverse nations threatening and "kingdom rising against kingdom." When the Roman empire begins to be consumed by the sword, the coming of the Evil One is at hand. It is necessary that the world come to an end at the completion of the Roman empire. In those days two brothers will come to the Roman empire who will rule with one mind; but because one will surpass the other, there will be a schism between them. And so the Adversary will be loosed and will stir up hatred between the Persian and Roman empires. In those days many will rise up against Rome; the Jewish people will be her adversaries. There will be stirrings of nations and evil reports, pestilences, famines, and earth quakes in various places. All nations will receive captives; there will be wars and rumors of wars. From the rising to the setting of the sun the sword will devour much. The times will be so dangerous that in fear and trembling they will not permit thought of better things, because many will be the oppressions and desolations of regions that are to come.

Section II We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!" For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!

Section III When therefore the end of the world comes, there arise diverse wars, commotions on all sides, horrible earthquakes, perturbations of nations, tempests throughout the lands, plagues, famine, drought throughout the thoroughfares, great danger throughout the sea and dry land, constant persecutions, slaughters and massacres everywhere, fear in the homes, panic in the cities, quaking in the thoroughfares, suspicions in the male, anxiety in the streets. In the desert people become senseless, spirits melt in the cities. A friend will not be grieved over a friend, neither a brother for a brother, nor parents for their children, nor a faithful servant for his master, but one inevitability shall overwhelm them all; neither is anyone able to be recovered in that time, who has not been made completely aware of the coming danger, but all people, who have been constricted by fear, are consumed because of the overhanging evils.

Section IV Whenever therefore the earth is agitated by the nations, people will hide themselves from the wars in the mountains and rocks, by caves and caverns of the earth, by graves and memorials of the dead, and there, as they waste away gradually by fear, they draw breath, because there is not any place at all to flee, but there will be concession and intolerable pressure. And those who are in the east will flee to the west, and moreover, those who are in the west shall flee to the east, and there is not a safer place anywhere, because the world shall be overwhelmed by worthless nations, whose aspect appears to be of wild animals more than that of men. Because those very much horrible nations, most profane and most defiled, who do not spare lives, and shall destroy the living from the dead, shall consume the dead, they eat dead flesh, they drink the blood of beasts, they pollute the world, contaminate all things, and the one who is able to resist them is not there. In those days people shall not be buried, neither Christian, nor heretic, neither Jew, nor pagan, because of fear and dread there is not one who buries them; because all people, while they are fleeing, ignore them.

Section V Whenever the days of the times of those nations have been fulfilled, after they have destroyed the earth, it shall rest; and now the kingdom of the Romans is removed from everyday life, and the empire of the Christians is handed down by God and Peter; and then the consummation comes, when the kingdom of the Romans begins to be fulfilled, and all dominions and powers have been fulfilled. Then that worthless and abominable dragon shall appear, he, whom Moses named in Deuteronomy, saying:-Dan is a young lion, reclining and leaping from Basan. Because he reclines in order that he may seize and destroy and slay. Indeed (he is) a young whelp of a lion not as the lion of the tribe of Judah, but roaring because of his wrath, that he may devour. "And he leaps out from Basan." "Basan" certainly is interpreted "confusion." He shall rise up from the confusion of his iniquity. The one who gathers together to himself a partridge the children of confusion, also shall call them, whom he has not brought forth, just as Jeremiah the prophet says. Also in the last day they shall relinquish him just as confused.
Section VI When therefore the end of the world comes, that abominable, lying and murderous one is born from the tribe of Dan. He is conceived from the seed of a man and from an unclean or most vile virgin, mixed with an evil or worthless spirit. But that abominable corrupter, more of spirits than of bodies, while a youth, the crafty dragon appears under the appearance of righteousness, before he takes the kingdom. Because he will be craftily gentle to all people, not receiving gifts, not placed before another person, loving to all people, quiet to everyone, not desiring gifts, appearing friendly among close friends, so that men may bless him, saying;-he is a just man, not knowing that a wolf lies concealed under the appearance of a lamb, and that a greedy man is inside under the skin of a sheep.

Section VII But when the time of the abomination of his desolation begins to approach, having been made legal, he takes the empire, and, just as it is said in the Psalm:-They have been made for the undertaking for the sons of Loth, the Moabites and the Ammanites shall meet him first as their king. Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem; who, after coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations, since he is carnal and filthy and mixed with worthless spirit and flesh. Then that eloquence shall be fulfilled of Daniel the prophet:-And he shall not know the God of their fathers, and he shall not know the desires of women. Because the very wicked serpent shall direct every worship to himself. Because he shall put forth an edict so that people may be circumcised according to the rite of the old law. Then the Jews shall congratulate him, because he gave them again the practice of the first covenant; then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem, and the holy city shall be trampled on by the nations for forty-two months, just as the holy apostle says in the Apocalypse, which become three and a half years, 1,260 days.

Section VIII In these three years and a half the heaven shall suspend its dew; because there will be no rain upon the earth, and the clouds shall cease to pass through the air, and the stars shall be seen with difficulty in the sky because of the excessive dryness, which happens in the time of the very fierce dragon. Because all great rivers and very powerful fountains that overflow with themselves shall be dried up, torrents shall dry up their water-courses because of the intolerable age, and there will be a great tribulation, as there has not been, since people began to be upon the earth, and there will be famine and an insufferable thirst. And children shall waste away in the bosom of their mothers, and wives upon the knees of their husbands, by not having victuals to eat. Because there will be in those days lack of bread and water, and no one is able to sell or to buy of the grain of the fall harvest, unless he is one who has the serpentine sign on the forehead or on the hand. Then gold and silver and precious clothing or precious stones shall lie along the streets, and also even every type of pearls along the thoroughfares and streets of the cities, but there is not one who may extend the hand and take or desire them, but they consider all things as good as nothing because of the extreme lack and famine of bread, because the earth is not protected by the rains of heaven, and there will be neither dew nor moisture of the air upon the earth. But those who wander through the deserts, fleeing from the face of the serpent, bend their knees to God, just as lambs to the adders of their mothers, being sustained by the salvation of the Lord, and while wandering in states of desertion, they eat herbs.

Section IX Then, when this inevitability has overwhelmed all people, just and unjust, the just, so that they may be found good by their Lord; and indeed the unjust, so that they may be damned forever with their author the Devil, and, as God beholds the human race in danger and being tossed about by the breath of the horrible dragon, he sends to them consolatory proclamation by his attendants, the prophets Enoch and Elijah, who, while not yet tasting death, are the servants for the heralding of the second coming of Christ, and in order to accuse the enemy. And when those just ones have appeared, they confuse indeed the antagonistic serpent with his cleverness and they call back the faithful witnesses to God, in order to (free them) from his seduction ...

Section X And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know, and on the day which the enemy of son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of the wood of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints, with those who bear the sign of the holy cross upon their shoulders, as the angelic trumpet precedes him, which shall sound and declare: Arise, O sleeping ones, arise, meet Christ, because his hour of judgment has come! Then Christ shall come and the enemy shall be thrown into confusion, and the Lord shall destroy him by the spirit of his mouth. And he shall be bound and shall be plunged into the abyss of everlasting fire alive with his father Satan; and all people, who do his wishes, shall perish with him forever; but the righteous ones shall inherit everlasting life with the Lord forever and ever.

It's a key part of Section II that is a Rapture Witness.  "For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins".  It's usually Pre-Tribbers bringing this up.  So as a form of Mid-Tribber I feel the need to point out that they don't know if whoever wrote this is defining "the tribulation" as Pre-Tribbers do.

It's clear that I have eschatological differences with this Author regardless of if they have a basically similar Rapture view to myself.  He agrees with me on The Witnesses being Enoch and Elijah, but probably not on the timing of their ministry it seems.

A problem for Pre-Tribbers thinking this agrees with them is the last section.  Clearly Ephraem views the return of Christ described in 1 Thessalonians 4 as being after The Resurrection of The Witnesses and the Abomination of Desolation.  He also ignores the Millennium strangely.

The accusation exists that the one line that helps Pre-Trib and Dispensaitonalism was in fact deliberately added or mistranslated by the translator.

The other Translation is not usually cited in The Rapture debate.  Is clearly influenced by the Seventh Pseudo-Methodius apocalypse.  And Pretends to foretell the rise of Islam.

SERMON OF PSEUDO-EPHREM ON THE END OF THE WORLD
Translated from the text in Edmund Beck, ed., Des heiligen Ephraem des Syrers Sermones III (CSCO 320; Louvain: Secrétariat du Corpus SCO, 1972), 60-71; see also 79-94 for Beck’s translation. The text is based on two manuscripts: (1) Codex Vaticanus Sir. 566, and (2) Codex Dublinensis (Trinity College) B 5.19. Editio princeps: Thomas Josephus Lamy, ed., Sancti Ephraem Syri Hymni et Sermones (4 vols.; Mechliniae: H. Dessain, 1882-1902), 3:187-212.

A discourse (memra) of the holy saint Ephrem, the Syrian teacher, concerning the end, (final) consummation, judgment, and punishment; on the people of Gog and Magog; and about the Antichrist. O Son who by His grace humbled Himself And who was pleased to make Himself a human being; Who willingly experienced death At the top of the wood(en cross) on Golgotha: Grant me, my Lord, (the ability) to speak about The struggles which will take place in the created order; For peoples will fall upon each other And nations will destroy one another, Evil will fortify itself on the earth And iniquity will increase throughout creation. Righteous rulers will perish And lawless ones will arise on the earth. Then a judgment will arise, And a weighing on the scale for those humans: The side (containing) the wicked will sink down; And that for the elect will rise up. Then spiritual entities will go forth And destroy the ends of the created order. It will happen, my brethren, just as it is written: A plague in a number of places, And a famine will occur in the created order; Terrible struggles and conflicts. Dust will be saturated with blood; The created order will be polluted from iniquity. Regions will be ravaged, And cities will be consumed by Sheol; Nation will rise up against nation And kingdom against kingdom. Lawlessness will be sovereign on earth And the defiled will pursue after the saints. People will openly apostatize And augment the left side; The righteous ones will suffer indignities From those who belong to the side of the sinners. It is due to this, my beloved ones That the final age has arrived. Lo, we have observed the signs, Just as Christ inscribed for us: Rulers will arise, one against another; There will be suffering on earth; Nations will contend with nations And armies will fall upon one another. When the Nile, the river of Egypt, Overflows (and) floods part of the land, Certain regions will prepare themselves Against the country of the Romans. Nations will contend with nations, And a kingdom with a kingdom. They will depart, moving from one land to another; Those Romans who are put to flight. And the Assyrians will gain authority Over the region of the Romans. The fruit of their loins they will subjugate And they will also ravish their women; They will be sowing and also reaping They will plant fruits in the ground; They will acquire vast riches And hoard treasures underground. But just as the Nile, the river of Egypt Recedes again from what it flooded; So too will Assyria recede Back to their own country. For the Romans once again will be found In their ancestral land (i.e., the Assyrians’). Then evil will increase on the earth And the land will be defiled with fornication. The cry of the persecuted and the wretched Will rise up to heaven. Then a judgment will arise To cast them out of the land. The holy covenant will complain; A cry will rise up to heaven. A people will emerge from the wilderness, The progeny of Hagar, the handmaid of Sarah; Who hold fast to the covenant with Abraham, The husband of Sarah and Hagar. Set in motion, he (Ishmael) comes in the name of the ram, The herald of the Son of Destruction. A sign will appear in the heavens, The one our Lord spoke of in His gospel: Luminaries will shine among the stars And the light of His face will gleam. Rulers will quake and tremble; The forces arrayed by them will fall. The peoples of the earth will be terrified When they behold the sign set in the heavens. They will prepare for battle and come together, All peoples and nationalities. They will wage war there And the ground will be drenched with blood. The nations will suffer defeat there, A marauding nation will prevail. The marauders will fly over the landscape, Across plains and over the peaks of mountains. They will take women and children as captives, Also men both elderly and young. The best of the males will be destroyed; The most desirable women will be removed. With strong spears and lances They will impale elderly men. They will separate a son from his father, A daughter from the side of her mother; They will separate a brother from his brethren, A sister from the side of her sisters. They will slay the bridegroom in his bedroom And expel the bride from her bridal chamber. They will take a wife away from her husband, And slaughter her as if she were a sheep; They will cast an infant away from its mother And drive the mother into captivity. The child will scream out on the ground: Its mother hears, but what can she do? For it will be trampled by the hooves Of horses, camels, and infantry! She (tries to) turn toward it, (but) they will not allow her; The child remains within the wild (?). They separate children from their mother As the soul (is separated) from the body. She watches while they divide them up, Her beloved ones (taken from) the embrace of her bosom; Two of her children to two (different) masters, Her own self to still another master; She has been allocated, and her children with her; For they are now slaves to robbers. Her children cry out with laments, Their eyes burning with tears; She turns toward her beloved ones, The milk flowing forth from her breast: ‘Farewell, my beloved ones! May God go with you! The one who accompanied Joseph In (his) servitude among foreigners: May He accompany you, my children Into the captivity where you are going!’ ‘Farewell, our mother! May God go with you! The one who accompanied Sarah Into the palace of Abimelech the Gadarite: May He accompany your own self Until the Day of Resurrection!’ The son will stand and watch while his father Is sold into slavery. The eyes of both of them will burn with tears While they groan, one in front of the other. A brother will watch while his brother Is killed and cast down on the ground, Whereas he they drive off into captivity In order to serve among foreigners as a slave. They even put to death mothers Who are holding their children to their breasts. Bitter is the sound of the infants Who are groaning to satisfy their desire (for milk). They will prepare roads in the mountains, Highways in the middle of the plains; They will maraud until the very ends of the created order. They will establish rule over the urban centers. The provinces will suffer destruction, And they will multiply corpses on the earth. All peoples will be brought low Before the marauder nation. And once the peoples have endured much on earth And hope that now peace has arrived, They (the Ishmaelites) start exacting tribute And everyone will be fearful of them. Lawlessness will intensify on the earth And even obscure the clouds; Wickedness will enclose the created order And waft up like smoke to the heavens. Then since wickedness will be rampant upon the earth, The Lord’s wrath will then stir up Kings and mighty armies. For when He seeks to expunge it from earth, He sends out humans against humans To annihilate one another. Truly at that time He will summon The kings and mighty armies Who are behind those gates Which Alexander fashioned. Many rulers and peoples Remain behind the gates. They look toward heaven And call on the name of God, That the Lord send His sign From within His heaven of glory And the Divine Voice Summon them who are by those gates; So that they suddenly break down and collapse At the command of the Divinity. Numerous armies issue forth, As many as the stars which cannot be counted. As multitudinous as the sand by the sea, And exceeding (the number of) the stars in the sky. A full span was consumed From the lower crossbar; And from the upper crossbar Another full span was consumed On account of the great quantity of their sharp spears With which they lacerated it. They issued forth, Moving, spilling forth from there; Kings and large armies And every people and language group Emerging from (behind) those gates. Gog and Magog and Nūl and Agag, Kings and mighty armies! Togarmah and Ashkenaz and Daypar, Pūìayē with Lūbayē. Amzartayē and Garmēdō‘, ¬alab with helmet-covered heads, Azmurtayē and Kūshayē, Hunayē and Parzayē, Diqlayē and Tūbalayē, Mūshkayē with Kūshayē. Allied to and coming with them Were both the Medes and the Persians, Armenians and Turks And NamrūÐayē and MūshÐayē; The descendants of Ke’wan and Serug; The progeny of Yaqìan and the MaÐūnayē; Numerous armies and nations Whose number cannot be calculated. They will burst forth and flood the earth, Shaking the walls of the created order. A dust cloud will rise up over the earth, Obscuring the sun above And covering creation With clouds and dark fogs, In accordance with what Ezekiel prophesied, The son of Buzi in his prophecy. For when the Huns come forth To wage war and to do battle, They will take hold of pregnant women And heap fire on top of them; They will come closer and mutter incantations over them, While roasting their children inside them! Splitting them open, they extract their fetuses When they are finished cooking inside of them. They draw near: then place them in basins, And pour water over them And dissolve their corpses there In those enchanted waters. They immediately take their swords And their bows with their spears And dip them in those waters For their arrows and their weapons. Every weapon to which are applied Those magical potions Appears as if there are hundreds, even thousands Of cavalrymen who wield them. Moreover those hundreds of horsemen Who set out (and) traverse the whole of the earth Appear as if they are accompanied By six thousand myriads. If one of them should fall off during battle While engaging in the fight, Wherever he extends his hand Suddenly a knife emerges! They eat the flesh of children And also drink the blood of women. Clothed in tanned skins, They mount the winds and tempests; And rapidly, in the blink of an eye, They lay waste to cities, Topple their walls to the ground, And destroy the strong citadels. Moving quickly, they bind the swift And slaughter the vigorous men. They are quicker in motion Than winds and tempests. Whenever news of them is heard on earth (to wit) ‘The Huns have set out (and) are coming!’ They blanket the whole of creation. Because they are sorcerers, They fly between heaven and earth. Their chariots are like the winds, And their swords and their lances Are like terrifying bolts of lightning. Holding straps in their hands And two or three horses, Each one of them leads with him Some fifty or sixty men, Traveling behind and in front of him Like winds and tempests. The sound of the battle-cry of just one of them Is like the roaring of lions. Indeed dread of the Huns Will overpower the entire earth; They will cover the whole earth Like the waters during the days of Noah, And they will overwhelm the edges of the created order: There is no one who can withstand them. These are the ‘numerous peoples’ About whom Ezekiel spoke Who will cover the whole earth As if they were clouds. ‘Fish will shudder before them, (As will) the birds of the sky And wild beasts and vermin of the earth And every species in creation; High mountains will be thrust down And fortified towers will collapse, Even the walls of the cities.’ On the earth will be a wasteland. For Ezekiel has prophesied That it will come to pass in the End of Days: They will burst out (and) come up from the land And cover the created order; Gog and Magog will prepare itself And arrive at the ‘hill country of Israel.’ Between the sea and Jerusalem He will place his encampment. Riders will fly off, descending Upon Egypt and opposite India; Leading away so many captives they cannot be numbered. People and riches, Cattle and property Which have now become his prey. Then Righteousness will summon Michael, the one who is leader of the host, To come down (and) destroy his encampment Just as (he destroyed) the encampment of Sennacherib. The angel, receiving the command, will draw The terrible and powerful sword, And departing, he will destroy his force In the twinkling of an eye! Righteousness will pick up and hurl Stones of fire upon the encampment. The slain on the ground will be as numerous As the (particles of) sand which cannot be counted; People and pack-animals will perish, The entire encampment will be consumed. The blaze will extend Unto the sea and to the islands. The bow will swerve from the hands Of Gog, the wicked ruler; Also his arrows (will drop) from his left hand: His entire encampment will be consumed. The inhabitants of Judaea will go out And loot his whole encampment. They will collect and pick up armament: Lances, arrows, and bows. For seven years within a fire They will burn them, as it is written: ‘They will not need to gather Wood from the field or thickets.’ Seven years they will throw in the fire Shields and clubs, Arrows, spears, and bows. They will prove sufficient for fueling the fire for seven years. Then the Lord will bring in His peace, Which attests His glorification among the heavens. And once more the empire of the Romans Will spring up and flourish in its place. It will possess the earth and its extremities, And no one will exist who opposes it. And when iniquity has become rife on earth And has polluted the whole of creation, Then a judgment will arise Which will entirely obliterate the people. The Son of Destruction, the Evil One, Will emerge and come upon the earth. A deceiver of humanity, An instigator of trouble over the whole earth. On the day when he comes to it, (when) the Son of Destruction arrives on earth, The created order will be thrown into commotion, And terror will engulf the earth. The sun will become dark in its place, And the stars will fall from the height; All the luminaries will be quenched, Darkness will cover the created order. The earth with its inhabitants will shake, And mountains and heights will quake; Springs and fountains will dry up, And the waves in the sea will abate And the fish therein grow still. Rulers will stop rendering judgment And priests will tremble in the sanctuary And military power will collapse. Confusion will be on the earth And all human powers will be paralyzed, For the Evil One will be ready. He will come to and enter Jerusalem. He will rebuild and establish himself in Zion, And will make himself to be God And enter into the sanctuary to take a seat In accordance with what the Apostle wrote to us. The Jews will take pride in him; They will prepare themselves and come to him. And he moreover will blaspheme when he says: ‘I, even I, am the Father and the Son! The First and the Last! There is no other god apart from me!’ But at that time ten thousand Jews will denounce him: They will answer him in truth: ‘You are a deceiver for (all) creatures! For the one whom our ancestors restrained At the top of the wood(en cross) on Golgotha Is (actually) the redeemer of (all) creatures, And he was raised up to the One Who sent him!’ Then the Evil One will be enraged And he will issue a command regarding those who denounced him That they should immediately die by the sword, And everyone will be too afraid to renounce him. Then he will begin to display Wonders through deception In the heavens and on the earth, Within the sea and on the dry land. He will summon the rain and it will fall; He will command the seed and it will sprout However he will not actually perform (miracles); He will be employing magic. He will command the waves and they will cease, And the winds will be obedient to him. He will suspend fruits on the trees And cause water to gush from the ground. He will address the leprous and they will become clean, (Speak to) the blind, and they will see light, He will call to the deaf and they will hear him, (Address) even the mute and they will speak. He will effect all the wonders Which Our Lord performed within the created order, Except that he will not be able to resurrect the dead, For he will not have authority over (the) spirits (of the dead). Lightening-flashes will be his messengers, And are the sign of his advent; Demons are his armies And the commanders of the devils are his pupils; He will dispatch the heads of his legions To distant lands Where they will display marvelous powers and healings And mislead the whole of creation. Behold, the Apostle has penned a warning for us In his epistle to the Thessalonians: ‘Let no word or no letter Trouble you that is not from us. For the rebellion comes first, Also the Man of Sin And he will exalt himself over God, Making himself to be God.’ And when the Accursed One comes And displays his mighty works and wonders, The nations will gather together and come As (if) they were going to see God. Groups and nations will join him, And every person will renounce their deity; Everyone will say of him to their fellow That they should acknowledge him, the Son of Destruction! Peoples will fall upon one another, Slaying each other with swords. The elect will flee from his presence To the peaks of mountains and hills, And there will be calamity on earth Unlike any that came before. Fear will fall upon all people And they will be overcome with terror. Children will renounce their father And follow after the Evil One; Priests will abandon their altars To serve as his heralds. People will flee to cemeteries And hide themselves among the dead, Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: ‘Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions! But as for us, woe is us! For when we die, Vultures will serve as escort for us!’ And if the days of that time were not shortened, The elect would never survive The calamities and afflictions. For Our Lord revealed (and) disclosed to us In his Gospel when He said: ‘Those days will be shortened For the sake of the elect and the saints.’ And when he has harassed the whole of creation, (When) the Son of Destruction (has bent it) to his will, Enoch and Elijah will be sent That they might persuade the Evil One. With a gentle question The saints will come before him, In order to expose the Son of Destruction Before the assemblies surrounding him: ‘If you are indeed God, Tell us what we ask of you: Where is the place that you have hidden The elders Elijah and Enoch?’ The Evil One will respond and say To the saints at that time: ‘When I wish (it), they are in the height(s), Or again should I choose, they are within the sea; For I have authority over habitations, Since there is no other god apart from me And I can make anything On earth (and) also in heaven!’ They will answer The Son of Destruction as follows: ‘If you are truly God, Call out to the deceased so that they will rise! For it is written within the books Of the prophets and the apostles That when the Messiah reveals Himself, He will resurrect the dead from the graves. If you cannot show us this (sign), Then the One who was crucified is greater than you! For he roused and resurrected those who were dead, And was exalted in great splendor.’ Then the Evil One will become enraged With the saints at that time; He will draw his terrible sword And sever the necks of the righteous ones. But Gabriel will arise (and) descend (With) Michael (as) military commanders; They will resurrect those saints While the Evil One stands confused with his servants. They will approach and seize that Accursed One And the Lord will rebuke (him) from heaven; Then He will destroy the Accursed One And all of his forces. Angels will suddenly approach And cast him into Gehenna, And all of those who believed in him Will be thrust into the flame(s). Then the Lord will come from above In splendor and with a company of His angels, And between earth and heaven A throne-chariot will be fixed there. He will admonish the sea and it will dry up; The fish within it will perish. He will dissolve the heavens and the earth, And there will be (only) darkness and gloom. He will dispatch fire upon the earth, And it will burn there for forty <days> Purifying it of iniquity And of pollution and of sins. A great throne will be adorned And the Son will be seated on the right; Seats will be positioned For the twelve apostles of the Son; And couches will be decorated for the martyrs And a royal chamber for the righteous ones. The Watchers will blow trumpets And the dead will arise from the dust; Fiery entities will suddenly go forth And assemble all the descendants of Adam. They will gather the wheat in a storehouse And throw the straw into the fire; The good will go forth into the Kingdom, And the bad will remain in Gehenna; The righteous will fly up to the height, And the sinners will burn in fire. The martyrs will float to the couch; The wicked will go out into darkness. And Christ will reign forever, He will be sovereign over each generation. To Him be the glory, and His mercy is over us For all time, amen, amen!

 In this version the timing The Resurrection of the Saints clearly seems to agree with a Post-Trib view I'm afraid.

If you deny that the The Church and Israel are separate covenants then you have no choice but to accept the Post-Trib position, as Chuck Missler likes to explain.  The Church developed Anti-Semitic views early on accepting Replacement theology and that is why the Truth of the nature of The Rapture has been so rare, prior to the re-emergence of Pro-Israel Christians in England following The Protestant Reformation.

This other Translation also agrees with me on Enoch and Elijah being The Witnesses.  And it agrees with my view I've argued for elsewhere that at the Time of Jesus's Resurrection others Arose too.