Showing posts with label Bagratid Dynasty. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Bagratid Dynasty. Show all posts

Tuesday, June 1, 2021

Judah and The Oriental Churches

In My View on Modern Israel in Bible Prophecy I hypothesized against those that casually refer to Modern Jews as if they're just Judah that if they are one of the Sothern Tribes more so then the other it's actually Benjamin due to things like Rashi via Hillel's Benjamite ancestry.  And applied that equally to the Ahskenazim, Shephardi and other Jewish populations.

Still that is not 100%,.  Judahite ancestry does exist among those Jewish populations and I suspect Benjamite ancestry also does among who I'll discus below.  As well as the mingling into both of Levi, Simeon and the Northern Israelites who weren't deported in Western Manasseh, Asher, Issachar and Zebulun.

If that is the case however then who is Judah today?  I've argued before that I think a larger percentage of 1st Century Judeans converted to Christianity then is popularly assumed after the 66-73 AD War annihilated those sects most hostile to early Christianity.  So we should perhaps look for some Jewish ancestry among ancient Christian populations.

Much of this is a theory that works Ecclesiastically or Clerically rather then only Genealogically.  Part of why I distinguish myself from Two House Theology is because Ezekiel 37 has Judah and Joseph both bringing companions, Gentile Believers, with them.  Even The Torah allows people who don't biologically descend from Jacob or even Abraham to be adopted into Israel.  

Deuteronomy 23:7 makes specific reference to allowing Mizraimites (Egyptians) and Edomites in.  I note this because for most of the Divided Kingdom period it was primarily the Southern Kingdom that maintained contact and relationships with Egypt and Edom while The North traded with Syria, the Mediterranean world and eventually Assyria.  So they may well be a factor in looking for Judah in Christian history.

I think the first thing we should look into is the fate of the original Jerusalem Church.  It was lead by James and the other Half-Brothers and Nephews of Jesus while the Twelve and Paul inevitably left to spread The Gospel throughout the world.  The Half-Siblings of Jesus were even more undeniably Judahite then Jesus was as being biological sons of Joseph probably gave them through Matthew's genealogy David's Y-Chromosome.  I still believe Mary descended from Nathan Ben-David, but that line is neither directly Matrilineal or Patrilineal in my speculation so probably wasn't how her family's Tribal Identity was formally classified.  I think in general New Testament era Galileans descended from Manasseh, Issachar and Zebulun.

The Jewish Jerusalem Church  around 70 AD moved to Pella(in modern Jordan), but some returned to remain The Church of Jerusalem until the Bar Kockhba revolt.  After that I believe they fled to Syria where I agree with the theory that they became the Nazarenes known to Epiphanius and Jerome in the late 4th century located chiefly in Aleppo and Bashan, Epiphanius in Panarion even seems to admit they descend from the exiled Jerusalem Church.  Jerome tells us they had a Syraic text of Matthew's Gospel.  

Over the course of the 5th and early 6th Century the Chalcedonian Schism in Syria was eventually split among Linguistic lines, the Greek speakers sided with Chalcedon while the West Syraic Churches (except the Maronites) mostly took the Miaphysite position becoming part of the Oriental Orthodox Church, I suspect the Nazarenes were slowly Gentilized and mingled with other Liturgically Aramaic groups, who may have also partly descended from 1st Century Jewish Converts and became the modern Syraic Orthodox Church.  The City of Damascus had a Jewish Christian population already before Paul's conversion in Acts 9.

There are also claims out there that the Jerusalem Church relocated to Edessa after the bar Kockba Revolt.  Edessa like nearby Nisibis already had a significant Jewish population during the Kitos War in the reign of Trajan.  And it became an important center for Syriac Orthodoxy during the 6th Century AD.  It was largely during the Young Turks' persecutions that the Syriac Christians of this region were forced to move South, the seat of their Patriarch of Antioch was in nearby Mardin till 1933.

Near the Armenian Quarter of Jerusalem there is a Syriac Orthodox Monastery of St Mark which claims to be the actual site of the Upper Room of The Last Supper and Pentecost, the birth place of The Church.  It is I feel much more likely to be authentic then the more well known mainstream Cenacle location south of the Zion Gate who's origins are clearly Crusader era.  The Upper Room being in the house of St Mark's mother (from Acts 12:12) does fit in with common theories about who Mark is in his Gospel in chapter 14 verses 13-15.  This Church is currently the seat of the Syriac Bishop of Jerusalem.

Josephus in Wars of The Jews Book VII Chapter 3 Section 3 says that the Jewish nation is widely dispersed throughout the world but particularly intermingled with Syria.  Meaning he's possibly suggesting that by this point even most gentile Syrians had some Jewish ancestry.  In The Hebrew Bible back in II Kings 14:28 Hamath is referred to as belonging to Judah, even though this is during the divided Kingdom and Hamath is north of the Northern Kingdom, so it seems some of the mingling was already happening back then.

There are six other Churches that make up the Oriental Orthodox Communion today.  The Malankara Church is a community that was Ancient Church of The East (often misleadingly called Nestorian) until later then the Protestant Reformation, so I don't particularly feel the need to factor them into this thesis.  However for the record I'll state my belief that the Saint Thomas Christians are Elamite in their Genesis 10 ancestry via the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.

The Coptic Church is obviously chiefly Mizraimite.  Jewish Communities were established in Egypt during the time of Jeremiah including the daughters of Zedekiah and before that King Jehoahaz who was taken hostage, and at some point during this era a Jewish Temple was built on Elephantine Island which may go back to the time of King Manasseh.  Then more came there after Alexander founded Alexandria, and later Onias IV set up his Temple at Leontoplis near Heliopolis.  The Nubians I think also descended from sons of Mizraim, the medieval Christian Nubian Kingdoms were also mostly Oriental Orthodox.

I've argued for connecting the Armenians to Judah already in my last Lost Tribes post.  The Holy See of Cilicia is also Armenian in origin from an Armenian Kingdom that existed there contemporary with the Crusades.  That the Armenian quarter in Jerusalem is next to the Jewish Quarter and resides on part of what Josephus identified as Mt Zion is interesting.  I also noted there the close relationship between Armenia and Georgia, the Georgian or back then Iberian Church was temporarily with the Oriental Orthodox during the 6th Century.

And the Ethiopian/Axum Church as well as Eritrea are also explained in part of my Languages of the Table of Nations post.  But I can add that I still think Bob Cornuke and Graham Hancock's thesis on The Ark going to Axum via Elephantine and Tana Kirikos could be valid, even though many other theories associated with those authors I either never did or no longer support.  The Ark being with Judah now would fit the typology of my Benjamin post since The Ark was in KirathJearim during the entire reign of the House of Saul.  

Armenia and Ethiopia also both use Red Lions as National Symbols.

The Ghassanid Arabs of late antiquity were an Oriental Orthodox Community that is no longer around.  Given where they mainly ruled and their Yemeni origins I suspect they were Edomites.  And they may have descendants today mingled into various Oriental Orthodox communities in the Arab world.

This thesis also holds for the various Eastern Rite Catholic Churches that were originally part of above mentioned Oriental Orthodox Churches until schisms that started in the 1700s.  In part the Catholic Church is a Christian Era manifestation of the same impulse to try and merge true YHWH worship with Idolatry and Polytheism that Israel frequently struggled with throughout the Hebrew Bible.  During the divided Kingdom era those tendencies may have more consistently ruled the North but Judah was still susceptible, Jeremiah condemned worshiping the "Queen of Heaven" and then Catholics went and gave that exact same title to Mary.

I may add to this post in the future additional tidbits.  But that is all the core argument.

Monday, April 12, 2021

The Lost Tribes are the Kurds, Maronites and Armenians

I have decided to abandon my past flirtations with more epic and sexy theories about the Lost Tribes and simply focus on who makes the most sense based on the DNA evidence.

A lot of the discussion of Jewish DNA online has been in the context of refuting the Khazzar Conspiracy theory, Casual Historian and Chris White both have good YouTube videos on that subject.  Studies of the DNA of various Jewish communities have shown them to be genetically closer related to other Jewish communities who might look different from them "Racially" then they are the Gentiles who do look like them "Racially".  And have likewise shown them to be closely related to the Arabs.  This applies equally to the Ashkenazim, Sephardi, Mizrahi, Maghrebi, Temani and other Middle Eastern Jewish communities, as well as the Persian Jews, Georgian Jews, Mountain Jews, Igbo Jews the Lemba and others.

What interests me today however are a handful of Gentile communities that are observed to be Genetically closer related to the Jews even then the Arabs.  Since the Arabs are predominantly the descendants of Ishmael and Abraham's sons by Keturah, groups closer to the Jews then them must be either Edomites or fellow Israelites, but I think the Edomites were mostly absorbed into Ishmaelite populations when the Nabateans conquered ancient Edom.

Those groups are the Kurds, Armenians and the Lebanese Christians.  

Sometimes Georgians and Anatolian Truks are added, but both those groups are today closely related to Armenians because probably many of them have Armenian ancestors somewhere within the last 2,000 years.  Ancient/Medieval Armenia was larger then modern Armenia and in fact included a good chunk of western Turkey, and during the Crusades era there was an Armenian splinter state in Cilicia.  Georgia's relationship to Armenia is uniquely complicated, they for a long time had a royal family that was a cadet branch of Armenia's Bagratid Dynasty.

Armenians actually classified as such are a smaller group today then they used to be largely because of the Armenian Genocide committed by the Young Turks during WWI. 

I should note the fact that some of those Khazzar theorists out there will try to claim the genetic similarities Jews have to Armenians and Georgians is evidence for the Khazzar theory, however legitimate scientists know that doesn't work.  They are on the wrong side of the Caucasus, the core of the Khazzar kingdom was way north of the Caucasus and then when it expanded it at it's greatest extent touched the norther slopes of the Caucasus, but they never held any dominion over Georgia much less Armenia.  Also the Khazzars were a Turkic tribe, so like the other Altaic peoples their dominant Y Haplogroup would have been C which just so happens to be one that has never been found in a Jewish population, even as a tiny minority.

The Anatolian Turks however are genetically speaking not actual Turks, that's what all the discussion of studies of their DNA I've found show even when they don't bring up this relation to Jews.  They are people who started speaking the Turkish Language after the Seljuks and Ottomans conquered the region, but they still more genealogically descend from those who were already there, the people of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Samaria=Kurds

1 Chronicles 5:26 refers to the Trans-Jordan Tribes being carried away by Assyria to Halah, Habor and Hara by the River Gozan.  2 Kings 17:6 and 18:11 also refer to those locations minus Hara but adds "Cities of the Medes" (some have argued it originally read "Mountains of Media", still implies the same general area) as being where the Captives of Samaria under King Hosea were taken.  Then 2 Kings 19:12 and Isaiah 37:12 mentions Gozan and Haran as among nations Assyria had destroyed previously.  From studying similar words in the Hebrew texts I think Hara is a shortened form of Haran, so it's like they're going full circle and being taken back to where Abraham was before he was called.

The River called Gozan in those verses is most likely the Khabur a significant tributary of the Euphrates that has tributaries of it's own, Guzana/Gozan is the name of an ancient city on that river who's remains are now called Tell Halaf, it may be a translation or scribal issue that switched the name of the river and city, or maybe they just were more interchangeable in Antiquity.  Edessa and Nisibis are both cities on rivers that are tributaries of this river as are many other important cities of Syrian and Turkish Kurdistan.  Antiochus Epiphanes renamed Edessa/Urfa as Callirrhoe or Antiochia on the Callirhoe, I'm not sure what exactly Callirhoe refers to here, but it could come from Halah given how Harran is similarly called Carrhae in Greek. 

Ancient Media meanwhile overlaps with modern Iranian Kurdistan, and the Kurdish Language is classified as a Northwestern Iranian language closely related to the Median Language (as are the Zaza-Gorani Languages spoken by some Kurds).  During classical Greco-Roman times this region included Corduene/Gordyene, Media Atropatene and Osroene, it's complicated however because multiple ethnic groups existed in those regions.

These were all territories at least partly under Assyrian Control in 740-720 BC, the more fanciful identifications for these places like Velikvosky's theories and those of British Israelism have Assyria somehow deporting Israelites to places Assyria never controlled.

The passages including Naphtali in the Captivity don't specifically refer to these locations,  But the Deuterocanonical book of Tobit gives us good reason to believe Naphtalite clans were actually living in the heart of Assyria itself (I know that the main protagonists of Tobit are in Media, but it established Ahkir an important Vizer of Assyria as their cousin), and 2 Kings 17:23 also refers to captives being taken to Assyria.  So I think they are the ancestors of first century Adiabene who's capital was Arbela and through them the Kurds of Iraqi Kurdistan who's chief city is Irbil.  

Corduene/Gordyene was inhabited by a people called the Carduchoi/Carduchi who are also popularly proposed to be ancestors of the Kurds.  There is a medieval Jewish legend that the Corduene were the result of Solomon marring some of his Jinn to 500 Jewish Women.  That is a weird legend which is certainly not correct, but it does show that ancient Jews thought of these people as in some way related to them.  It could partly have it's roots in 1 Kings 4's account of Solomon marrying two of his daughters to Northern Governors, one of them being governor of Naphtali.

A region in Media Atropatene called Cadusia may have also been named after Gad.  A city in northwestern Iran is called Zabad, possibly related to the Zabad of 1 Chronicles 7's Ephraimite Genealogy.  There is also a city in Iranian Kurdistan called Salmas who's name could be related to the Biblical name Salma or to Shillem a clan of Naphtali from Number 26:49 and Genesis 46:24.  Salmas first appears in the historical record right at the same time the Parthian Empire was conquered by the Sassanids.

The proper Kingdom of Media of classical antiquity didn't actually begin till just after when the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered.  Deioces is the name given in Classical sources for it's first King, there are conflicting dates for their reign between the different sources, but when analyzed they can be explained by Deioces being a Median name given to King Hosea.  Deioces is also speculated to be the same person as Hushung in the Sahanameh, Hushung is a name that both phonetically and in meaning could be a poetic adaptation of the name of Hosea.  So Media Atropatene could be the Arsareth that II Esdras says King Hosea lead some of the exiles to.

Dejoces is a direct ancestor of Astyages who's daughter was the mother of Cyrus.  Media Atropatene was the one former Persian territory not fully conquered by the Greeks under Alexander, it remained Semii-Independent till the 1st century when their Royal Family became the main Parthian Royal Family and through them of Armenia as well.

Saladin was of Kurdish ancestry.

The rest of the Northern Kingdom was not carried away into captivity.  Those who accepted Hezekiah's Passover invitation in 2 Chronicles simply became Jews (citizens of Judah/Judea), and is known to have included people of Manasseh, Issachar, Zebulun and Asher. (Anna the Prophetess of Luke 2 was of the Tribe of Asher.)  For the most part though in NT times they became the Galileans and Jews of southern Phoenicia. Those of Manasseh and Ephraim who rejected Hezekiah' invitation became partial ancestors of the Samaritans by mingling with the gentiles Assyria settled there.  And the Tribe of Dan's unique History had them mostly separated from the rest of the Northern kingdom well before the captivity happened.

Actually even Assyria's deportation of Naphtali seems to have been the core Natphalite settlements along the Sea of Galilee, while Naphtali's allotment included much of Eastern Lebanon, where there were places they never drove the Canaanites out of.

Dan=Maronites

Most Christians in Lebanon are Maronites, the Maronites are also seemingly the oldest Christian community in Lebanon.  

Among the parts of Lebanon demographically dominated by the Maronites are places on the southern Border just north of Israel's Northern Border.  And the oldest Maronite Community within Israel was in a village north of Mount Meron just south of the Lebanese border.  Thus fitting Dan's Biblical association with Israel's northern border.  

Lebanon is the region that in Biblical Times was the homeland of the Sidonians known to the Greeks as the Phoenicians who's chief cities were first Sidon then Tyre.  The Tribe of Dan had a unique relationship with the Sidonians and their territory from Joshua 19 to Judges 18 to Hiram architect of Solomon's Temple.  

The last time I talked about this theory of mine I tied it into rejecting Tel-Dan as being Biblical Dan, but that I've changed my mind on.  I now know that we've found the ruins of an old Temple at Tel-Dan likely to be where Jeroboam's Calf was worshiped.  There used to be a more significant Maronite presence in the Golan Heights but now they've dwindled to just a small community in Ein Qiniyye not far from Tel-Dan.  [My opinions continue to fluctuate on that subject.  But now even the more Northern sites I'm considering are also in Maronite territory.]

In the KJV of 1 Kings 5:18 "stonequarers" is a translation of Giblites, which is the spelling also used of inhabitants of Gebel the Semitic name for Byblos, the YLT translates this verse correctly.  Since these Giblites are implied to be involved in the construction of The Temple which was overseen by the half-Danite half-Phoenician Huram, I'm willing to consider this circumstantial evidence for significant Danite presence in the region of Byblos, which is today the core of Maronite Lebanon.  Gebel/Byblos was also a port city, so the seafaring Danites mentioned in the Song of Deborah might be who settled there.

There is a tradition among some Maronites that they at least partly descend from the Maradites, a group of Byzantine Christians who migrated from the Taurus Mountains region of Turkey into Syria during the 7th Century.  Of course there are also theories about the Tribe of Dan that suggest some of them wound up in the Adana region as the Denyen.

But I am also skeptical about traditional narrative of Maronite origins.  I think the actual origin of their name is probably connected to Mount Maron in Nothern Israel, a village between that Mountain the Lebanon border was one of the oldest Marontie communities in Israel.  

I also theorize that the liturgically Greek Christians of Tyre, Sidon and Ptolemais/Acre/Acco/Akka clerically at least descend from the Hellenistic Jewish Deacons of Acts 6 who Acts 11 implies some of fled to Phoenicia, and later on Acts mentions all three of those cities specifically.  My broader theory is that the Greek Rite Christian communities of Northern Israel and Southern Lebanon to some extent descend from Hellenized Jews who converted to Christianity in the First Century, there are references to the Galileans being more open to Hellenization then the Judeans.  And related to that I think the Aramaic Rite Christians of the same region distinct from the Maronites likewise descent from Aramaic speaking Jews who converted to Christianity in the First Century.  In this region they were probably usually remnants of Asher, Zebulun and Issachar, and maybe also those Manesseites in Asher and Issachar referred to in Joshua 17:11, Judges 1:27, 1 Kings 4:11-12 and 1 Chronicles 7:29.

The non Maronite Christians of Eastern Lebanon could be those left behind remnants of Naphtali like the Melkite Catholics of Zahle.  There are also Maronites in the East, Dan and Naphtali as brothers of the same handmaiden often got along.

How does Armenia fit in?

During much of the divided Kingdom Period the city of Lachish was the second largest city in Judah, and in fact the largest within Judah's proper Tribal allotment since Jerusalem was originally a city of Benjamin.  Assyria failed to conquer Jerusalem, but in it's war with Judah during the reign of Hezekiah it did capture and carry away into captivity the population of Lachish.

There are no Biblical clues to where the Judeans of Lachish were taken like there are for the Northern Kingdom's Captivity.  However where Assyria settled the northern captives made sense in the context of what their other recent conquests were, Assyria liked to move populations from one conquered region to another to weaken local national identities.  So it's notable that between the Northern Kingdom's captivity in the 8th century BC and when Lachish was taken in the 7th century BC the Assyrian Empire had conquered Urartu extending it's borders further north.  And the Armenians first began to emerge in the former Urartu lands after Assyria conquered it.  It took awhile however, the Orontid Kings don't show up till 570 BC, and nothing is known to have been written down in the Armenian language till their translation of The Bible in the 5th Century AD.

Armenia's traditional claim to descent from sons of Gomer (chiefly Togarmah but Ashkenaz is also mentioned) I think refers to some of the ancestors of the Urartu who lived in the region before them and who they intermingled with.  Or maybe the Armenian Language being Indo-European is their influence.

It's possible additional Jewish migrations to this region happened later, like during the Babylonian Captivity or when it ended.  Two patrilineal descendants of Herod The Great were Roman Client Kings of Armenia as Tigranes V and Tigranes VI.  And then Jewish Christians of the first couple centuries eventually brought The Gospel to Armenia, Armenia even claims to have beaten Rome to making Christianity their State Religion in 301 AD. I think it actually happened a little later probably at the same time as Iberia in the 330s and like them perhaps partly because of diplomatic relations with Constantine. 

Both the Six Pointed Star and a Red Lion are among Armenia's National Symbols.  Many insist the Six Pointed Start didn't become a Jewish Symbol till fairly recently, but archeological evidence does exist of it being used in Ancient Israel, and I have a hypothesis that the Hebrew Bible's Lily Imagery is partly where it comes from.  

It is sometimes claimed that only the Georgian Bagratuni claimed Davidic descent, but their heraldry was a Lion already in Armenia.  There is also an Armenian folk hero named David of Sassoun who's father was called Lion Mher meaning "lion like".  The current official genealogy of the Georgian branch connects them to David in a way that excludes the Armenian branch, but that link alone may not be the whole story.

The Eagle was also an ancient symbol for Armenia.  I've often pointed out how there is no Biblical support for an Eagle being a symbol of Dan, that came from later Targums.  I had in the past mistakenly thought the Eagle imagery of the last verse of Micah 1 was in reference to Samaria, but the proper context is actually Lachish named in verse 13 and nearby towns of Judah.  Micah 1 is a Biblical reference to the Assyrian Captivity of Lachish which I had trouble finding when looking for it strictly in the historical books.

One theory on the claimed Davidic origins of the Bagratid Dynasty I've already discussed on this blog is that they descend from one of the Maternal Half Siblings of Jesus (I'm thinking of making a post arguing that Cleopas was married to a Sister of Jesus).  However other theories on their origins connect them to the Babylonian Exilarchs.  I also am controversially willing to agree with Nicolas of Damascus over Josephus that Herod was of Davidic ancestry not Idumean.

But maybe Lachish itself was simply a frequent home to Cadet branches of the House of David, like Orleans was for France and York for England?  David himself, Rehoboam and Abijah are all known to have had a lot more children then just the Son who followed them on the Throne.

Plato's Myth of Er son of Armenios is probably an adaptation of Armenian legends about their local hero Ara The Beautiful.  That draws attention to the possibility that the Armenian name Ara could be related to the Hebrew Er.  In Genesis 38:3-7, 46:12, Numbers 26:19 and 1 Chronicles 2:3 the name of Er is given to Judah's firstborn son who died childless.  I believe Er's widow Tamar did eventually marry Shelah after the events of Genesis 38 end and that she's the mother Shelah's children (in addition to Zerah and Pharez).  In 1 Chronicles 4:21 the name of Er is given to the firstborn son of Shelah.  

It could be the real story behind the myth was this second Er being thought of as a symbolic rebirth of the first Er.  I don't think Semiramis was ever part of the Ara mythology prior to Hellenistic influence in the region, and Plato we also know would change the myths he talked about to suit his rhetorical purposes.  However if a literal belief in Reincarnation was part of the Pre-Christian Paganism of Armenia, my current theories about the origins of that belief suggests it would have came not from the Jewish element of their ancestry but from the same people responsible for their language being Indo-European.

Perhaps I should give some more thought to Armenia's close relationship to Georgia however.  The oldest civilization in what is today called Georgia was Colchis.  Certain classical Greek writers like Diodorus Siculus (in Section 28) said that the Colchi descended from the same "foreigners exiled from Egypt" that the Jews descended from, and that they also practiced circumcision. "The nation of the Colchi in Pontus and that of the Jews, which lies between Arabia and Syria, were founded as colonies by certain emigrants from their country; and this is the reason why it is a long-established institution among these two peoples to circumcise their male children."  The Georgians were called Iberians during Greco-Roman times, a name which could derive from Eber/Hebrew.  So maybe the Colchi were the lost clan of Calchol son of Zerah son of Judah?  

The Colchi definitely existed on the shores of the Black Sea before the captivity of Lachish however, so we'd need an additional route for how they got there.  They could have just been a colony founded by Judean sea faring merchants.  However Joel 3 speaks of Tyre & Sidon and the Philistines selling children of Judah and Jerusalem to Ionians(Javan) as slaves.  Ezekiel 27:13 speaks of Javan, Meshach and Tubal trading in commodities including Slaves that they got from Tyre.  Meshach and Tubal are the names of two ancient cities in Georgia.  

Herodotus also claimed the Colchi practiced Circumcision though his theory on why was that they were an Egyptian colony.  Modern scholars tend to dismiss these Greek references to Circumcision in Colchis because none of the Karvelian tribes seem to have ever practiced it.  However the Georgian Jews were already present in the region by the time of Nebuchadnezzar, so it could be they were who these Greek authors were thinking of.

Be Flexible.

There is a lot of overlap between Armenia at it's greatest extent and Kurdistan, before the Armenian Genocide there were over 2 Million Armenians in Turkey many of them essentially right next to the Kurdish communities.  The Armenian offshoot Kingdom of Sophene was entirely within modern Kurdistan.  The Armenian Historian Moses of Chorene for some reason considers the history of King Abgar of Edessa to be relevant to the History of Armenia, he talks about him far more then the actual Armenian Client Kings of that time.

So being super rigid about which part of Ancient Israel each is descended from is of course a bit silly.  But I found it fun to talk about the often overlooked subject of Lachish in the context of Armenia.

Gad in Deuteronomy 33 has Lion symbolism parallel to that of Judah in Genesis 49. 

The traditions the Armenians have that they descend from sons of Gomer son of Japheth could have it's roots in there being an ancient major city called Gyumri.  However in Scripture the name of Gomer isn't limited to that genealogy, in Hosea it's also the name of a Woman who's story is supposed to typologically represent the Northern Kingdom.

Update 2022: Anatolian Turks

I kind of dismissed them as one of the DNA results at the start as mostly insignificant.  I didn't really realize that Anatolian Turks are in fact the majority ethnic group in modern Turkey.

In addition to how they might be related through various intermingling they've done with Armenians and Kurds, there is Joel 3's reference to Philista, Tyre and Sidon selling people of Judah and Jerusalem as slaves to the Ionians (commonly translated Greeks or Grecians) Ionia was in Anatolia.  1 Chronicles 9:3 says Jerusalem's population has people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim and Manasseh.  I connected Joel 3 to Ezekiel 27's Meshech and Tubal reference in the Georgia section above, but many argue Meshech and Tubal actually point to locations in Anatolia, chiefly Cappadocia and Tyana.

Then there is how some "Sea Peoples" are connected to both Anatolia and Israel, like the Denyen to both Dan and Adana, and the Sherden to both the Sardite clan of Zebulun and Sardis.  To mainstream historians who see a connection it is usually seen as them starting in Anatolia then migrating to Palestine, but I of course think the other way is more likely.  However I still think most of those tribes mostly stayed in Israel and Lebanon as laid out above, it'd be small groups who left little seeds in Anatolia that eventually grew to great significance.

And then there is my theory that the Gog son of Joel a Cheif of The Tribe of Reuben in 1 Chronicles 5 was a child when Reuben was deported in the late 700s BC and is the same person as Gyges of Lydia.

Sunday, May 14, 2017

England and Edessa

On another blog the other day I did a post theorizing that the early traditions of Mary Magdalene going to Ephesus and the later ones taking her to southern France are perhaps explained by the first Christians of Lyon coming from Ephesus.

Since making that, I decided to look into traditions about the early Briton Church again, which as usual lead me to Simon Zelotes, the only one of the Twelve that I think could have come to Britain.  Of other traditions about where he went, I totally reject ones making him the same as Simon the Half Brother of Jesus, or the Simon who was the second Bishop of Jerusalem.  For reasons explained in my post on the Brothers and Sisters of Jesus.  Other aspects of that post may be relevant later.

He's said to have spent some time in Egypt but no claims that Egypt is where he died.  The same Disciple being linked to both Briton and Egypt could be interesting in light of my England and Egypt post.  (My calling this post England and Edsessa is kinda misleading since it's mostly about pre Anglo-Saxon Britons, but I wanted to repeat that previous double E phonetic effect.)

What's most interesting is Simon's link to Edessa, many traditions seem to also pair him with Jude//Thadeus, who is even more strongly linked to Edessa.  The associations with Aremnia and Iberia of the Caucus could have to do with Moses of Khorene treating Agbar of Edessa as part of Armenia's history.  And them being said to go to Persia may have to do with Edessa being a Parthian client kingdom during much of the first century.

The key thing is that as soon as I realized Simon Zelotes who I'd long knew was sometimes said to come to Britannia had also been associated with Edessa.  I immediately thought of how King Abgar the IX and/or X of Edessa is theorized to be who the Liber Pontificals actually meant by King Lucius of Britain.

This is more complicated then the Ephesus to Lyon connection for three reasons.

1. That a group of Christians came to Lyon from Ephesus in the Second Century is a known fact independent of thinking the development of traditions about Mary Magdelene had anything to do with it.  While here I admittedly have little to go on to prove anyone ever came from Edessa/Osroene to Britain during the time frame in question.

2. I don't necessarily think this migration is the sole or even primary origin of Briton Christianity, as the Ephesus to Lyon connection seems to be.  Tertulian and I think also Irenaus have quotes showing Christians were in Britain already before the time of Abgar IX.  And I still think Aristobulus of Romans 16 came to Britain as there are no alternate traditions for him.

3. Simon Zelotes like all of the Twelve I think did more traveling around then Mary Magdalene did, who traditions take only to Ephesus and much later France.  So maybe he individually did go to both places, (especially since he's said to have come to Britannia twice, in the early 40s and in 60), while I'm certain Mary was never actually in France.  But there are some reasons in the New Testament to think the Twelve went mainly to places with a very strong Jewish presence, which Edessa had in the first century, but Britannia did not.  Acts 2:9-11 mentions Mesopotamians and Arabians (Osroene was an Arabian kingdom in Mesopotamia) present at Pentecost, but not Britain or Gaul.  I think Paul lead the way West while the Twelve focused mainly on the East (I've already shown that Peter didn't go to Rome). I'm interested in theories of Paul coming to Britain but haven't looked that deep into it yet, the main book on it is pretty expensive.

Much of ancient Osroene was in modern Syria (but all of it East/North of the Euphrates).  But it had chunks of Iraq and modern Turkey, including Edessa itself and the city possibly responsible for the Lucius in Britain scribal Error, Birtha aka Birecik.

Bede added to the Lucius of Britain story that under him the whole country converted and remained Christian at least until the Diocletian Persecution. Elsewhere that persecution is not known to have had any notable incidents in Britain, in fact it seems it wasn't enforced in The West much at all.  But major focal points of much of it were in Turkey and in the East.  Logically, this may have been a time when many Christians in the East migrated West.

Another figure controversially associated with both Turkey and Britain is Empress Helena, but in this case it's her beginning not end that is being disputed.  The source for her being born in Nicodemia is not till the 6th Century, and seems to be based on her and Constantine's later connections to Nicodemia.  So I'm inclined to doubt she was born there.  But the problem with the much later traditions of her being born a Briton princess is that Constantius Chlorus didn't come to Britain until within a year before he died there and Constantine was already an adult.

I think maybe an overlooked clue to Helena's origin is her name.  Before her the only royal families Helena would have been a dynastic name for are Osroene and Adiabene, who intermarried with each other.  Helen of Adiabene married Abgar V of Edessa after her first husband died.  I think the two later kings of Osroene called Bar Ezad were sons of Helena's son Izates II of Adiabene probably by a daughter of Abgar.  So just as mythical Welsh genealogies make Empress Helena a descendant of Lucius of Britain, I think she may really have been a descendant of Lucius Abgar of Birecik.

Regardless of Constantine's ancestry, his descendants I think include many monarchs of the British Isles right down to the present.... but first.

Both the other wife of Constantius, and the only wife of Constanine who is ancestral to his successors, Fausta, were daughters of Eutropia.  A woman of seemingly noble origin in Roman Syria.  And so I think very likely to descend from the Near Eastern Roman aristocracy that descended from Antiochus IV Epiphanes of Commagene and thus from the Seleucid Dynasty.  And also from daughters of the Ptolemaic Dynasty like Cleopatra Thea, Tryphenea and Cleopatra Selene.  So this post is again further backing for making British Royalty descendants of Egyptian Royalty.

Flavia Maxima Constantia, was a granddaughter of Constantine, and a descendant of both daughters of Eutropia.  She married the Western Emperor Gratian.  They are in mainstream history presumed to have had no children, but they were married for long enough, and there's a lot of time that Constantia isn't mentioned.  How she died at only 21 max isn't known, maybe she died in child birth.  If Gratian had any "legitimate" children it was by her, he died before he could even have consummated his second marriage.

Welsh traditions say that Magnus Maximus was married to a daughter of Gratian named either Helena or Ellen.  Welsh genealogies sometimes say he had two wives, one named Helena and one Ellen, one a daughter of Gratian and the other of a mysterious Eudaf.  Eudaf is a name used in other welsh texts to refer to Octavian Caesar Augustus, whether the name actually comes from Octavian or Augustus is hard to tell, but this is why the Eudaf who is a father in law of Maximus is sometimes given as a King Octavius of Britain.  Gratian's full name as Emperor was Flavius Gratainus Augustus, so I think his daughter was the only wife of Magnus Maximus.

Welsh genealogies put Magnus Maximus in the ancestry of a lot of people.  There may be a route to put him in the ancestry of the Kings of Gwynedd from whom came the Medieval princes of Wales from whom came The Tudors.  But I want to focus on the Scottish connection here.

Rigrawst was the wife of King Brychan of Brycheiniog.  Born 468 AD, she was the daughter of Gwrtheyrn ap Gwidol (Vortigern) and Severa Ferch Mascsen, the daughter of Magnus Maximus. [ Brian Daniel Starr, The Life of Saint Brychan: King of Brycheiniog and Family (Google eBook) (Brian Daniel Starr, 2008) page 59.]  Brychan himself may through his mother descended from Maximus's daughter Gratiana who is said to have married Tudwall of Galloway.

Dyfnwal Hen was a King of Strathclyde.  The Bonedd Gwŷr y Gogledd, a later genealogy of northern kings gives a modified version of Dyfnwal's family tree.[Bromwich, pp. 256–257] Here, he is the son of Idnyued and the grandson of Magnus Maximus.  There are also genealogies making Dyfnwal an ancestor of Gabran mac Domangairt, father of Aeden mac Gabran, from whom descends most later royalty of Scotland, from Malcolm and Duncan of Macbeth (and possibly Macbeth himself) down to the Davids and Alexanders, then to Robert The Bruce (through his great grandmother Isobel of Huntingdon) and eventually the Stuarts including James I ancestor of all Kings of Britain since.  Brychan I've also seen listed as an ancestor of Gabran.  Malcom III of Scotland also had a daughter who was the mother of Empress Matilda and thus Grandmother of the Plantagenet Kings of England, another Daughter of Malcolm's was Mary who married Eustace III of Boulogne.

I did a post in the past on Adiabene where I theorized that Izates II or Monobaz II or both could have married Half-Sisters of Jesus.  I also have a post on Arthruain Legend and Grail Romances where I draw on that post and my Half Brothers of Jesus post and theorize that King Kalafes of Grail Legend may be based on Abgar of Edessa.  And maybe Bron was actually Izatez or Monobaz.  A daughter of Kalafes married a son of Bron who inherited his Kingdom.  I've already suggested that the Davidic Exilarchs of the Jewish Community in Mesopotamia could also descent from Abgar and Izates.  And also the Bagratid Dynasty. 

I don't think Joseph of Arimathea actually came to Britain.  But some things about the Grail legend are geographically contradictory.  For example Sarras is said to be both an island they stopped at on the way to Britain and "on the road from Jerusalem to the Euphrates and Babylon", which makes me wonder if it could be meant to be Sura, which was linked by a roman road to Palmyra in antiquity.

If Josephus is correct that the Tadmor of Solomon was Palmyra, then maybe it's allegorically what the Grail lore meant by the "Ship of Solomon", while also bringing in Celtic Pagan ideas.  When Wikipedia attempts to cast doubt on this identification, it says the Tadmor of 1 Kings 9:18 was built in Judea, that is demonstrably wrong because that verse clearly says Tadmor and Baalath were built "In the Wilderness" a term that refers to the deserts of Arabia, Jordan and Syria.  The "in the Land" phrase just means within what was was promised to Abraham which extended all the way to the Euphrates.  We know from Assyrian inscriptions that Palmyra was called Tadmor/Tadmar.

According to the Vulgate Queste del Saint Graal and Estoire del Saint Graal, Galahad is of the Lineage of Solomon via his descent from the Fisher Kings, and that is why the "Ship of Solomon" is important.  The Grail saga ends with Galahad and the Grail being taken to heaven at Sarras, and then Sir Bors lives on to tell the tale.

If Sarras is Sura then Corbenic could be identified with a city of Osroene or Adiabene.  And Castle Mortal would be another city of the same area.

The traditional timeline for King Arthur is 516-537 based on the Annals Cambrie, but Geoffrey of Monmouth and the Brute Tyslo place his death in 542.  The Exilarch at that time was Mar Ahunai, but he never operated publicly due to the fall out of his predecessor Mar Zutra II's failed rebellion (496-502 AD).  Mar Zutra II also had a son, Mar Zutra III, who became head of an academy.

The Bagratid descent would at this time be represented by the father, or grandfather or maybe even great-grandfather of Guaram I, the first Prince of Iberia.  This Guaram was the son of a Solomon son of Dahn son of Isaac son of Aser.

But perhaps the real forgotten inspiration for this was that via Empress Helena the descendants of the Agbars of Edessa becomes kings in the British Isles.

Update Nov 16 2018: Pelegius and the East.

Pulegius of the Pelegian heresy was a Briton, he lived in the late 4th and early 5th Century.  What's often over looked is how connected the Pelegian Hersey (which is today Amriniasm)  and the Nestorian controversy were.  Pelegius got a lot of his ideas from Rufinus the Syrian, and Celestine was a follower of Pelegius who's association with Nestorius was used against him by Cyril of Alexandria.

However the key difference between the Pelegians of the Latin West and the Nesotrians & other descendants of the Antiochene School in the East was that Pelegius seems to have rejected Universal Salvation while Theodore of Mopsuestia affirmed it, as did Isaac of Nineveh.  Nisibis and Edessa both specifically become home to successor schools to Antioch.

This article isn't mine but seems to be by people who support the Augustinian view of Original Sin way more then I do, interesting information comes up in the comments section as well.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2013/09/05/original-sin-and-ephesus-carthages-influence-on-the-east/

A post I made on Cyril and Nestorius.
https://solascripturachristianliberty.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-incarnation-of-logos-and-divine.html

And one I made on Pelegius.
https://solascripturachristianliberty.blogspot.com/2018/04/pelagius-was-in-error-but-it-wasnt-free.html

Tuesday, June 2, 2015

Adiabene, Christianity, and Messiah Ben-Joseph

This is an interesting follow up to my post on the Kurds and the Lost Tribes.

Adiabene in the Talmud is called Hadayb and is identified with Habor of II Kings 17:6 in Kddushin 17a.  Where some of the Northern Kingdom exiles were transported.

Josephus records how Helena the wife of Adiabene's king Monobaz I converted to Judaism, around the same time so did her son Izates.  A Jew named Ananias was their teacher in Judaism.  Izates and Monobaz II his older bother both ruled the Kingdom.  Izates died before 60 AD.  Monobaz II assisted the Jewish rebellion against Rome in 66-70 AD, we know nothing about his fate or history after 70 AD, or indeed the Kingdom at all till the reign of Trajan.  Helena and Izatez were buried in Jerusalem.

The Yosippon (a not easily available in English Hebrew adaptation of various parts of Josephus, but could also relate some useful independent information), claims that both Agrippa II and Monobaz II were killed by Rome in the 66-73 AD War.  Because Agrippa II we know lived after that, the entirety of that reference is often considered discredited.  But Monobaz fate is unknown, the Romans didn't usually let people who rebelled against them get off easy (Agrippa was on their side so they wouldn't kill him).  And it's not hard to imagine reasons Josephus wouldn't have mentioned Monobaz being executed.

However if Monobaz did die during that War I doubt it was at it's start as the Yosippon actually says, placing it 1290 days before the Temple's destruction on the 9th of Av in 70 AD.   The text of Yosippon wants to present this double murder as fulfilling the Messiah being Cut Off of Daniel 9, which is why Preterists love quoting it.  In Josephus Menahaim ben Judas the Galilean was killed about this time after being Crowned.

If Izates and Monobaz were descendants of Northern Kingdom Exiles who had lost their identity, but now had returned to Yahweh worship and lead their entire nation in doing so.  And if Monobaz II died in battle with Edom in 70 AD.  It's interesting how they resemble the role that Messiah Ben-Joseph is expected to play by modern Jews.  All that would be left is for one or both of them to be Resurrected by Messiah Ben-David.

Josephus' biography of Izates even tells us his paternal half brothers were jealous of him because of the favoritism he received being the son of the favorite wife.  So his story has parallels to Joseph.

What's interesting about that to me is that there is also speculation that the Judaism they converted to may have been early Christianity.  The fact that whether or not Izates should be circumscribed is a source of disagreement is interesting.  The Ananias they knew has been speculated to be the Ananias of Acts.  And according to Moses of Khorone, Helena later married the Christian King Abgar of Osroene (Osroene's capital was Edessa), another Mesopotamian region, after her first husband Monobaz I died.

Monobaz II is quoted in the Talmud as saying something possibly influenced by Jesus.
"My fathers stored up below and I am storing up above... My fathers stored in a place which can be tampered with, but I have stored in a place which cannot be tampered with… My fathers gathered treasures of money and I have gathered treasures of souls."-Baba Batra 11a.
Matthew 6:19-21
 "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
It'd be interesting if Helena, Izates II and Monobaz II are all resurrected at The Rapture and proclaim Jesus to be The Messiah Ben-David to all who witness it.

Assyrian Christian traditions say Thomas, Thaddeus and Bartholomew were the first to bring the Faith to Assyria.  And that Peter was in Babylon like he said he was when he wrote 1 Peter.  But the details of the early development of Mesopotamian Christianity are not well documented.  Their first known Bishop was from the time of Trajan.

The majority of Assyrians were Christians already when Constantine made it legal in Rome, and so they defected to Rome from Persia.

Many scholars believe the royal family of Adiabene could be among the ancestors of the Amatuni, a noble family that popped up in Armenia in the fourth century, and were Christians.

If the Amatuni could be from a family with Jewish stock, I feel that gives credibility to the claims of the Bagartid dynasty, who shows up near the same region only a century or two later.

What is interesting about the Bagratid claim is they claim to come from the near Kin of Jesus.

The descendants of Jesus half siblings, or at least some of them, remained in Jerusalem and were pretty much the exclusive leadership of the Jerusalem church til the Bar-Kochba revolt.  They didn't disappear entirely then however.

Eusebius quotes Julius Africanus as referring to people claiming to be descended from the siblings of Jesus in his day, but they had now left Judea and traveled into other countries.
A few of the careful, however, having obtained private records of their own, either by remembering the names or by getting them in some other way from the registers, pride themselves on preserving the memory of their noble extraction. Among these are those already mentioned, called Desposyni, on account of their connection with the family of the Saviour. Coming from Nazara and Cochaba, villages of Judea, into other parts of the world, they drew the aforesaid genealogy from memory and from the book of daily records as faithfully as possible.
I think Sumbat's Chronicle is corrupted and confused by the early traditions that were uncomfortable with Jesus having siblings by the same mother.
Genealogy of the Bagrationi dynasty according to Sumbat
  1. Adam
  2. Seth
  3. Enos
  4. Kenan
  5. Mahalalel
  6. Jared
  7. Enoch
  8. Methuselah
  9. Lamech
  10. Noah
  11. Shem
  12. Arpachshad
  13. Cainan
  14. Salah
  15. Eber
  16. Peleg
  17. Reu
  18. Serug
  19. Nahor
  20. Terah
  1. Abraham
  2. Isaac
  3. Jacob
  4. Judah
  5. Perez
  6. Hezron
  7. Ram
  8. Amminadab
  9. Nahshon
  10. Salmon
  11. Boaz
  12. Obed
  13. Jesse
  14. David
  15. Solomon
  16. Rehoboam
  17. Abijah
  18. Asa
  19. Jehosaphat
  20. Jehoram
  1. Amaziah
  2. Uzziah
  3. Jotham
  4. Ahaz
  5. Hezekiah
  6. Manasseh
  7. Amon
  8. Josiah
  9. Jeconiah
  10. Shealtiel
  11. Zerubbabel
  12. Abiud
  13. Eliakim
  14. Azor
  15. Zadok
  16. Achim
  17. Eliud
  18. Eleazar
  19. Matthan
  20. Cleopas
  1. Jacob
  2. Naom
  3. Salah
  4. Robuam
  5. Mohtar
  6. Eliakim
  7. Benjamin
  8. Iherobem
  9. Moses
  10. Judah
  11. Eliazar
  12. Levi
  13. Jehoram
  14. Manasseh
  15. Jacob
  16. Mikiah
  17. Jehoakim
  18. Jehrubem
  19. Abraham
  20. Job
  1. Akab
  2. Simon
  3. Izahkar
  4. Abiah
  5. Aser
  6. Isaac
  7. Dahn
  8. Solomon
  9. Guaram
  10. Stephanoz
  11. Adarnase
  12. Stephanoz
  13. Guaram
  14. Varaz-Bakur
  15. Nerse
  16. Adarnase
  17. Bagrationi dynasty
Generation 60 has Cleopas which I believe the original source of the genealogy probably had Joseph.  And I also think his and Jacob's spots got switched. That makes Naom, generation 62, the same generation as Jesus.  Now you may be thinking, Jesus didn't have a brother named Naom?

The male name Naom is a fairly rare Hebrew name, I don't think anyone in The Bible had it in either Testament.  But it's feminine form, Naomi, is infamous as the name of an important character in the book of Ruth, a book about the origins of the Davidic Line.

We don't know the names of Jesus sisters, maybe one was named Naomi?  But later record keepers wanted to obscure that they'd carried this line through a woman?

We know the identity of one of Izates's wives and she wasn't from Judea but another Proselyte.  But Josephus says he had 48 children in 25-30 years.  So clearly he had more wives.  First century Judaism was still practicing Polygamy.  We also don't know if Monobaz II ever married or reproduced at all.

Two early second century Rulers of Osroene were called "Bar Ezad"(Son of Ezad) even though no ruler named Ezad is mentioned.  It could be this indicates further ties between Izates and the family of Abgar.  Abgar bar Ezad also rebelled against Trajan when the Jews of the region did.  Agbar VIII and Agbar IX were probably descended from Manu Bar Ezad.

Moses of Khorone clearly felt the people of Abgar's Edessa were among the progenitors of the Armenians of his day which is why he focused on Agbar so much and not on the actual rulers of First Century Armenia who were always either Roman or Parthian vassals.

Creating a Jewish monarchy Izates and Monobaz could very likely have sought descendants of David as wives.  And if they were early Christians, could have desired strong ties to Jesus family who were leading the Jerusalem Church and probably other early Jewish-Christian Churches as well.

The Kingdom of Osroene was also founded by Nabateans in the second century BC, making them Ishmaelites.

Modern DNA studies have shown that modern Jews are close cousins to Armenians and Christian Kurds.

Update April 2016: These theories happened to come up in my discussion of Arthurian Legend and Grail Romances.

Update October 2019: It's also possible the Jacob son of Cleops of that genealogy is James son of Joseph the oldest Half Brother of Jesus.

Wednesday, August 6, 2014

Genealogy of The Antichrist: Descent from Antiquity

This is a family tree I made myself of the royal family of Commagene and placed on my Flickr account

I need to update it. What I know now that I didn't know then was that Gaius Julius Alexander Berenicianus, listed there as a maternal grandson of Antiochus IV of Commegene and paternal grandson of Tigranes VI of Armenia, had married a woman named Cassia Lepida. Her mother is unknown but her father was Cassius Lepidus, the son of Junia Lepida and Gaius Cassius Longinus, who was Consul suffectus in 30 A.D. (The year I date the Crucifixion) and a direct descendant of the Gaius Cassius Longinus who was one of the assassins of Julius Caesar on the Ides of March 44 B.C. Junia Lepida was a descendant of Augustus's granddaughter Julia the Younger.

Berenicianus and Cassia Lepida had a daughter named Julia Cassia Alexandria who married Gaius Avidius Heliodorus. Their son was Gaius Avidius Cassius who was a brief Roman Usurper of the 2nd Century A.D. He had three children, Avidius Heliodorus, Avidius Maecianus, and Avidia Alexandra.

Tigranes VI of Armenia was of direct pater-lineal descent from Herod The Great and the Hasmoneans as shown in these family trees I made.
Herodian Dynasty
Hasmonean Dynasty

The next two family trees aren't my own, but taken from tyndalehouse, a very good site on the Ptolemaic Dynasty (Which intermarried with the Seleucids) though I disagree with them on some things.
Seleucid Family Tree
Continuation of Seleucid and Ptolemaic Lines

Now there is a new Seleucid-Genealogy website. They disagree with the Tyndale site on some things.  Their different take on the Acheaus line intrigues me.[Now we have to use the Wayback Machine for it.]
"The most complete proposal for a DFA is the Bagratid one. The route starts with Arsaces, the first of the Arsacids, flourishing ca. 250 BC. One of his descendants, king Tiridates III of Armenia, who reigned early in the 4th century, is known to have been ancestor of Nerses the Great. The latter's son Sahak I was the father-in-law of Hamazasp I, an Armenian ruler from the Mamikonian dynasty. Then the line can be traced, though not with certainty, to a much later Mamikonian, Samuel II of Armenia, whose son-in-law was Smbat VIII Bagratuni, Constable of Armenia and forefather of all the living Bagratids. The advantage of this route is that its crucial links (from Arsacids to Gregorids, from Gregorids to Mamikonids, and from Mamikonids to Bagratids) may be corroborated by near-contemporary sources, dating to within a century after the key marriages took place."
 The Above used to be on Wikipedia's Descent from Antiquity page. Wikipedia currently doesn't number any Smbat as VIII, but it's not uncommon for these numberings to be different in different sources.  The Son in Law of Samuel II of Armenia is currently numbered as Smbat VII.  Also the person called Sahak I above is more commonly known as Isaac of Armenia.

Ruben I who founded the Roupenian Dynasty of Armenian Cilicia in the Eleventh Century is generally agreed to have been a Bagratid relative and probably also descended from Smbat.  Later Gabriel of Melitene is believed to be connected either by his wife or mother to Ruben I.  Gabriel's daughter was Morphia of Melitene.

 Tiridates III of Armenia was of direct Pater-lineal descent from Khosrov I of Armenia. Khosrov I was one of the sons born to King Vologases II of Armenia (Vagharsh II) who is also known as Vologases V of Parthia by an unnamed mother. Vologases was of direct pater-lineal descent from Vonones II of Parthia (Who is numbered Vonones I on the Tyndale site's genealogy). He and his brother were the sons of Darius son of Artavasdes of Media by a daughter of Antiochus I Theos of Commanege (another correction I need to make to my genealogy is that daughter was named Athenais not Iotapa). The wife of Darius is an unnamed Arascid princess, who may herself already be descended from earlier intermarriages between the Arascid and Seleucid dynasties.

The Bagratid dynasties have also claimed Davidic Descent.

Maria Taronitissa was probably of Bagratid descent via the Roupenians, she married John Doukas Komnenos a Duke of Cyprus who had descent from Byzantine Emperors. Their daughter Maria Komnene married Amalric I Crusader King of Jerusalem.   All modern claimants to the Crusader King of Jerusalem title are descendants of that marriage.

Amalric's mother Mellisende of Jerusalem had ruled as Queen of Jerusalem.  Her parents were Baldwin II of Jerusalem and his wife Morphia of Melitene who also descended from Armenian nobility.  Another daughter of theirs was Alice of Antioch who married Bohemond II of Antioch and had a daughter, Constance of Antioch.  Constance had a number of children from whom the Princes of Antioch descend, and a daughter, Agnes of Antioch.  Agnes had 6 children, and from them descended all later kings of Hungry, and her daughter Constance of Hungry was the mother of Wenceslaus I of Bohemia.

Mary of Lusignan was the daughter of Hugh I of Cyprus and Alice of Champagne, daughter of Queen Isabella I of Jerusalem, daughter of Aalmric and Maria Komnene.  She is an ancestor of modern British Royalty.
Marie de Lusignan (1215-1251/3)
Hugh, Count of Brienne (1240-1296)
Walter V of Brienne (1278-1311)
Isabella of Brienne (1306-1360), claimant to the Kingdom of Jerusalem
Louis of Enghien (d. 1394)
Marguerite of Enghien (b. 1365) m. John of Luxembourg, Lord of Beauvoir
Peter of Luxembourg, Count of Saint Pol (1390-1433)
Jacquetta of Luxembourg, married Earl Rivers
Elizabeth, Queen of England m. Edward IV
Elizabeth of York m. Henry VII
Elizabeth of York was the mother of Henry VIII, and his Sister who was an ancestor of both parents of King James Stuart VI of Scotland and I of England.

Returning to the subject of the Western branch. Avidius Heliodorus and other descendants of Antiochus IV of Commanege where based in Syria. At least two Syrian based Usurpers during the Crisis of the Third Century are also probably descended form them, Joptainians and one named Seleucus. The entire Aristocracy of Roman Syria (and surrounding regions) from the Second Century onward was Seleucid.

Eutropia was a woman of Syrian origin living in the late Third and early Fourth centuries AD. By her first husband she had Flavia Maximiana Theodora, who married Constantius I Chlorus, and was the mother of all his children except Constantine I. However her much younger daughter by her second husband Fausta married Constantine I. By the mid Fourth Century the entire Constantinian dynasty was descended from Eutropia. I suspect it's through the Constantinians that the Merovingian dynasty (as well as other early Western European dynasties) can be traced back to the Seleucids, but I can't prove it yet.

Update October 2019: The Heraclied Dynasty who ruled the Byzantine Empire for most of the Seventh Century are also speculated to have had Arascid Armenian Descent.