Lutheran Aristocracy

Lutheran Aristocracy 

House of Ludovingian

Louis I, Landgrave of Thuringia

:Louis II, Landgrave of Thuringia

::Louis III, Landgrave of Thuringia           

::Hermann I, Landgrave of Thuringia, Patron of Wolfram von Eschenbach

:::Jutta  

::::Henry III, Margrave of Meissen    

:::::Albert II, Margrave of Meissen   

::::::Frederick I, Margrave of Meissen (Became Heir to House of Hohenstaufen)

::::Herman I, Count of Henneberg

:::Louis IV, Landgrave of Thuringia

::::Hermann II, Landgrave of Thuringia

::::Sophie of Thuringia, Duchess of Brabant

:::::Henry I, Landgrave of Hesse

:::Irmgard

::::Henry II, Prince of Anhalt-Aschersleben

::::Bernhard I, Prince of Anhalt-Bernburg

::::Siegfried I, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst

:::::Albert I, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst

:::Henry Raspe

:::Conrad, Grand Master of The Teutonic Knights

Reformation Era (16th Century)

Philip I, Langrave of Hesse (Heir of Henry I Landgrave of Hesse)

John the Steadfast Elector of Saxony (Heir of Frederick I, Margrave of Meissen)

Henry IV the Pious, Duke of Saxony (Another Patrilineal Descendent of Fredrick of Meissen)

Ernest I, Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg as well as his brothers Otto and Francis (Their mother was John The Steadfast's Sister)

Julius of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel

Philip I, Duke of Brunswick-Grubenhagen

John V Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst 

George III Prince of Anhalt-Dessau

Joachim I Prince of Anhalt-Dessau

Jobst II, Count of Hoya

Bernhard VIII, Count of Lippe

Barnim XI, Duke of Pomerania

Philip I, Duke of Pomerania

Philip III Count of Waldeck and his nephew Count Philip IV of Waldeck-Wildungen

George I of Württemberg-Mömpelgard and his brother Ulrich

John Albert I, Duke of Mecklenburg

John III Duke of Cleves (Mother was another descendent of Henry Landgrave of Hesse)

Albert of Prussia last Grand Master of the Teutonic Knights and first Duke of Prussia 

Joachim II Hector, Elector of Brandenburg, Albert's Paternal Cousin

John, Margrave of Brandenburg-Küstrin a brother of Joachim II Hector.

Louis V, Elector Palatine

Frederick II, Elector Palatine

Otto Henry, Elector Palatine

John II, Count Palatine of Simmern

Wolfgang, Count Palatine of Zweibrücken (Mother and Wife were both Princesses of Hesse)

Charles II Margrave of Baden-Durlach

William I, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg (His mother was another descendent of Henry Landgrave of Hesse)

Christopher, Count of Oldenburg

Anthony I, Count of Oldenburg

Gustav I of Sweden

Elizabeth of Denmark, Electress of Brandenburg

Dorothea of Denmark, Duchess of Prussia

Christian III of Denmark 

The Cadet branch of his dynasty founded by his third son often intermarried with these families, the Dukes of Schleswig-Holstein.

His Half-Brothers founded Cadet Branches of their own that did the same.

Bavarian Illuminati Members (usually born in the 1740s or 1750s)

Ernest II Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (Was the senior Male-preference Primogeniture heir of John the Steadfast)

Prince August of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

Karl August Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach (Was the senior Male-only Primogeniture heir of John the Steadfast)

Prince Frederick Ferdinand Constantin of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach

Prince Charles of Hesse-Kassel

Prince Christian of Hesse-Darmstadt

?Louis X, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt

Frederick V, Landgrave of Hesse-Homburg

?Frederick Christian II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg (not an official member but is mentioned by Bode)

Duke Ferdinand of Brunswick-Lüneburg-Wolfenbüttel (1721-1792)

?Frederick William III of Prussia father of Kaiser Wilhelm I

Nazi Party Members and Sympathizers (alive in the 1930s and 40s)

House of Hohenzollern

Kaiser Wilhelm II sometimes expressed support for Hitler but sometimes condemned him

:Prince August Wilhelm of Prussia (NSDAP – 24)

::Prince Alexander Ferdinand of Prussia (NSDAP – 534782)

:Prince Joachim Franz Humbert of Prussia

::Prince Karl Franz of Prussia (NSDAP – 2407422)

:Princess Victoria Louise of Prussia

Princess Margaret of Prussia (NSDAP – 4814690)

Princess Marianne of Prussia (NSDAP – 4628851)

British Royals

Duke of Windsor/King Edward VIII, senior Male-preference primogeniture heir of Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

Princess Alexandra of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (NSDAP – 4969451)

:Gottfried Prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg (NSDAP – 402307)

Princess Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha

Charles Edward Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (NSDAP – 2560843)

:Johann Leopold, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (NSDAP – 1037966)

:Prince Hubertus of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (NSDAP – 7213588)

Princess Marie Louise of Hanover and Cumberland

:Princess Marie Alexandra of Baden (NSDAP – 7900128)

:Berthold, Margrave of Baden

Princess Alexandra of Hanover and Cumberland

:Friedrich Franz, Hereditary Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (SS) (NSDAP – 504973)

:Duke Christian Louis of Mecklenburg

Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick

Other Princes of Saxony

Prince Rainer of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (NSDAP – 300354)

Prince Ernst of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (NSDAP – 196633)

Prince Leopoldine of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (NSDAP – 1453322)

Georg of Saxe-Meiningen (NSDAP – 2594794)

Bernhard Prince of Saxe-Meiningen (NSDAP – 898842)

Ernst II Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (NSDAP – 4868932)

:Georg Moritz Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Altenburg

House of Hesse

Frederick Charles Louis Constantine Prince and Landgrave of Hesse (NSDAP – 4814689)

:Philip Landgrave of Hesse (NSDAP – 418991)

:Prince Wolfgang of Hesse-Cassel (NSDAP – 1794944)

:Prince Christopher of Hesse-Cassel (SS) (NSDAP – 696176)

Chlodwig Langrave of Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld

:Prince Wilhelm of Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld (SS) (NSDAP – 1187621)

:Alexander Friedrich of Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld (NSDAP – 1184026)

:Princess Viktoria Cacilie (NSDAP – 3515493)

Ernest Louis Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine

:Louis Prince of Hesse and by Rhine (NSDAP – 5900506)

:Georg Donatus Hereditary Grand Duke of Hesse  (NSDAP – 3766312)

Princess Cecilie of Greece and Denmark (NSDAP – 3766313)

Prince Richard of Hesse (NSDAP – 1203662)

House of Lippe

Princess Marie Adelheid of Lippe (NSDAP – 237533)

Prince Bernhard of Lippe

:Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands (NSDAP – 2583009)

:Prince Aschwin of Lippe-Biesterfeld (NSDAP – 5854038)

Leopold IV Prince of Lippe

:Ernst Hereditary Prince of Lippe (SS) (NSDAP – 88835)

:Prince Leopold Bernhard of Lippe

:Prince Chlodwig of Lippe

Wolrad Prince of Schaumburg-Lippe (NSDAP – 3681098)

Prince Stephan of Schaumburg-Lippe (NSDAP – 309344)

Prince Friedrich Christian of Schaumburg-Lippe (NSDAP – 95146)

Princess Bathildis of Schaumburg-Lippe (NSDAP – 3681097)

Others

Princess Marie-Auguste of Anhalt (NSDAP – 3452693)

Duchess Edda Charlotte of Anhalt (NSDAP – 4843880)

Duke Joachim Ernst of Anhalt (NSDAP – 7267717)

Princess Pauline of Württemberg

Nikolaus Hereditary Grand Duke of Oldenburg (NSDAP – 4085803)

Duchess Altburg of Oldenburg (NSDAP – 161001)

Josias Hereditary Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont (SS) (NSDAP – 160025)

:Princess Margarethe of Waldeck and Pyrmont (NSDAP – 8562493)

:Prince Wittekind of Waldeck and Pyrmont (Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler were his Godfathers)

House of Windsor's succession from Hohenstaufen

Frederick Barbarossa Holy Roman Emperor

Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor

Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor

Margaret of Sicily, Wife of Albert II Margrave of Meissen

Frederick I, Margrave of Meissen

Frederick II, Margrave of Meissen

Frederick III, the Strict

Frederick I, Elector of Saxony

Frederick II, Elector of Saxony

Ernest, Elector of Saxony

Johann the Steadfast Elector of Saxony

Johann Friedrich I, Elector of Saxony

Johann Wilhelm, Duke of Saxe-Weimar

Friedrich Wilhelm I, Duke of Saxe-Weimar

Johann Philipp, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg

Princess Elisabeth Sophie of Saxe-Altenburg, Wife of Ernest I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha

Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

Princess Louise of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, Wife of Ernest III, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld

Albert, Prince Consort of Queen Victoria

King Edward VII

King George V

King George VI

Queen Elizabeth II

King Charles III

William, Prince of Wales

Prince George of Wales

Holy Roman Imperial Descent of Frederick Barbarossa

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Ingeltrude

Hedwig of Babenberg

Henry the Fowler

Otto the Great

Liutgard of Saxony (died 953)

Otto of Worms

Henry of Speyer

Conrad II, Holy Roman Emperor

Henry III, Holy Roman Emperor

Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor

Agnes of Germany

Frederick II, Duke of Swabia

Frederick Barbarossa

Holy Roman Imperial Descent of Hermann I, Landgrave of Thuringia

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Ingeltrude

Hedwig of Babenberg

Henry the Fowler

Otto the Great

Liutgard of Saxony (died 953)

Otto of Worms

Henry of Speyer

Conrad II, Holy Roman Emperor

Henry III, Holy Roman Emperor

Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor

Agnes of Germany

Frederick II, Duke of Swabia

Judith of Hohenstaufen

Hermann I, Landgrave of Thuringia

Some unique lines of Descent from Charlemagne.

 Charlemagne is the ancestor of all European Royalty and a good percentage of people who aren't royals at all.  Thought lines we can't document some thing pretty much all people who's ancestors were in Western Europe in the past 500 years descent from Charlemagne.

I already did a post on Charlemagne's ancestry.  But this also begs the question of who is the most Senior descendent of Charlemagne, who's the theoretical head of this huge family?  UsefulCharts has some videos trying to deduce this through standards that Medieval Europe would have actually used.  But today society is more enlightened on Gender and so we should consider some less Patriarchal standards.  And so that's what I have compiled today.

Gender Neutral Primogeniture Succession from Charlemagne

If you count Bernard of Italy

Charlemagne

Pepin of Italy

Bernard of Italy

Pepin, Count of Vermandois

Herbert I, Count of Vermandois

Beatrice of Vermandois

Hugh the Great

Beatrice of France

Theodoric I, Duke of Upper Lorraine

Frederick II, Duke of Upper Lorraine

Sophie, Countess of Bar

Theodoric I, Count of Montbéliard

Sophie († 1148), married in 1128 to Richard II, Count of Montfaucon

Amadeus II of Montfaucon

Walter of Montbéliard

Eschiva de Montfaucon

John II, Lord of Beirut

Eschive d'Ibelin

Rupen of Montfort

Jeanne of Montfort

Maria of Ibelin

Guy

Hugh

Charlemagne

Pepin of Italy

Bernard of Italy

Pepin, Count of Vermandois

Herbert I, Count of Vermandois

Beatrice of Vermandois

Hugh the Great

Beatrice of France

Theodoric I, Duke of Upper Lorraine

Frederick II, Duke of Upper Lorraine

Sophie, Countess of Bar

Theodoric I, Count of Montbéliard

Sophie († 1148), married in 1128 to Richard II, Count of Montfaucon

Amadeus II of Montfaucon

Walter of Montbéliard

Eschiva de Montfaucon

John II, Lord of Beirut

Eschive d'Ibelin

Hugh IV of Cyprus

James I of Cyprus

Janus, King of Cyprus

Anne de Lusignan

Amadeus IX, Duke of Savoy

Anne of Savoy

Charlotte of Naples

Anne de Laval, Viscountess of Thouars

Louis III de La Trémoille

Claude de La Trémoille

Henri de La Trémoille

Henri Charles de La Trémoille

Charles Belgique Hollande de La Trémoille

Marie Armande de La Trémoille

Marie Hortense Victoire de La Tour d'Auvergne

Jean Bretagne Charles de La Trémoille

Charles Bretagne Marie de La Trémoille

As far as Wikipedia allows me to trace it

If you don't count Bernard of Italy

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Lothair I

Louis II of Italy

Ermengard of Italy

Louis the Blind

Charles-Constantine

Constance of Vienne

Rotbold I, Count of Provence

Rotbold II, Count of Provence

Emma of Provence

Pons, Count of Toulouse

William IV, Count of Toulouse

Philippa, Countess of Toulouse

William X, Duke of Aquitaine

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Henry II, Count of Champagne

Alice of Champagne

Mary of Lusignan, Countess of Brienne

Hugh, Count of Brienne

Joanna of Brienne

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Lothair I

Louis II of Italy

Ermengard of Italy

Louis the Blind

Charles-Constantine

Constance of Vienne

Rotbold I, Count of Provence

Rotbold II, Count of Provence

Emma of Provence

Pons, Count of Toulouse

William IV, Count of Toulouse

Philippa, Countess of Toulouse

William X, Duke of Aquitaine

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Henry II, Count of Champagne

Alice of Champagne

Isabella of Cyprus

Hugh III of Cyprus

Amalric of Lusignan

John of Poitiers-Lusignan

Leo V of Armenia

Marie of Lusignan

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Lothair I

Louis II of Italy

Ermengard of Italy

Louis the Blind

Charles-Constantine

Constance of Vienne

Rotbold I, Count of Provence

Rotbold II, Count of Provence

Emma of Provence

Pons, Count of Toulouse

William IV, Count of Toulouse

Philippa, Countess of Toulouse

William X, Duke of Aquitaine

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Henry II, Count of Champagne

Alice of Champagne

Isabella of Cyprus

Hugh III of Cyprus

Guy, Constable of Cyprus

Hugh IV of Cyprus

From here on it's the same as the Bernard of Italy line

Gender Neutral Primogeniture Succession from Eleanor of Aquitaine's Marriage to Henry II of England.

Eleanor of Aquitaine + Henry II

Matilda of England, Duchess of Saxony

Henry V, Count Palatine of the Rhine

Irmengard of Baden

Herman VI, Margrave of Baden

Agnes of Baden, Duchess of Carinthia

Catherine of Heunburg

Frederick I, Count of Celje

Ulrich I, Count of Celje

William, Count of Celje

Anna of Cilli

Hedwig Jagiellon

As far as I could trace it on Wikipedia.

UsefulCharts also has a video on Matrilineal Descent from Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Gender Neutral Primogeniture Succession from Charles The Bald who inherited France

Charles The Bald

Judith of Flanders

Baldwin II of Flanders

Adalulf Count of Boulogne

Arnulf II of Boulogne

Baldwin II of Boulogne

Eustace I of Boulogne

Eustace II of Boulogne

Eustace III of Boulogne

Matilda of Boulogne

Marie I Countess of Boulogne

Mathilde of Flanders

Margaret of Brabant

Otto II Count of Guelders

Reginald I of Guelders

Reginald II of Guelders

Marie of Guelders

Joanna of Jülich

Maria van Arkel

Arnold of Egmond

Mary of Guelders

James III of Scotland

James IV of Scotland

James V of Scotland

Mary Queen of Scots

James VI of Scotland and I of England

Elizabeth Stuart Queen of Bohemia

Charles I Louis Elector Palatine

Princess Elisabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate

Philippe II Duke of Orléans

Charlotte Aglaé d'Orléans

Maria Teresa Felicitas d'Este

Louise Marie Adélaïde de Bourbon Duchess of Orléans

Louis Philippe I King of The French

Ferdinand Philippe Duke of Orléans

Prince Philippe of Orléans Count of Paris

Princess Hélène of Orléans

Prince Amedeo Duke of Aosta

Princess Margherita of Savoy-Aosta

Archduchess Maria Beatrice Anna Felicitas Zita Charlotte Adelheid Christina Elisabeth Gennara

Charles The Bald

Judith of Flanders

Baldwin II of Flanders

Arnulf I, Count of Flanders

Hildegarde

Arnulf, Count of Holland

Dirk III, Count of Holland

Floris I, Count of Holland

Bertha of Holland

Constance of France, Princess of Antioch

Bohemond II of Antioch

Constance of Antioch

Maria of Antioch

Alexios II Komnenos

Charles The Bald

Judith of Flanders

Baldwin II of Flanders

Arnulf I, Count of Flanders

Hildegarde

Arnulf, Count of Holland

Dirk III, Count of Holland

Floris I, Count of Holland

Bertha of Holland

Constance of France, Princess of Antioch

Bohemond II of Antioch

Constance of Antioch

Bohemond III of Antioch

Raymond IV, Count of Tripoli

Raymond-Roupen

Maria of Antioch-Armenia

Humphrey of Montfort

Rupen of Montfort

Jeanne of Montfort

Eventually this too arguably converges on Hugh IV of Cyprus

Female Preference Primogeniture Succession from Charlemagne just for the fun of it

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Judith of Friuli

Gisela (mother of Regelinda)

Regelinda of Zürich

Bertha of Swabia

Adelaide of Italy

Emma of Italy

Louis V of France

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Judith of Friuli

Gisela (mother of Regelinda)

Regelinda of Zürich

Bertha of Swabia

Adelaide of Italy

Matilda, Abbess of Quedlinburg

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Judith of Friuli

Gisela (mother of Regelinda)

Regelinda of Zürich

Bertha of Swabia

Adelaide of Italy

Otto II, Holy Roman Emperor

Adelaide I, Abbess of Quedlinburg & Sophia I, Abbess of Gandersheim

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Judith of Friuli

Gisela (mother of Regelinda)

Regelinda of Zürich

Bertha of Swabia

Adelaide of Italy

Otto II, Holy Roman Emperor

Matilda of Germany, Countess Palatine of Lotharingia

Richeza of Lotharingia

Richeza of Poland, Queen of Hungary

Sophia of Hungary

Richardis of Carniola

Otto III (d. after 15 December 1130), Eckhard III (d. after 11 July 1183), Bernard II (d. c. 1135), unnamed son

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Judith of Friuli

Gisela (mother of Regelinda)

Regelinda of Zürich

Bertha of Swabia

Adelaide of Italy

Otto II, Holy Roman Emperor

Matilda of Germany, Countess Palatine of Lotharingia

Richeza of Lotharingia

Richeza of Poland, Queen of Hungary

Sophia of Hungary

Wulfhilde of Saxony

Sophia of Bavaria

Ottokar III of Styria

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Judith of Friuli

Gisela (mother of Regelinda)

Regelinda of Zürich

Bertha of Swabia

Adelaide of Italy

Otto II, Holy Roman Emperor

Matilda of Germany, Countess Palatine of Lotharingia

Richeza of Lotharingia

Richeza of Poland, Queen of Hungary

Sophia of Hungary

Wulfhilde of Saxony

Judith of Bavaria, Duchess of Swabia

Bertha, Duchess of Lorraine

Alice of Lorraine

Odo III, Duke of Burgundy

Hugh IV, Duke of Burgundy

Margaret, Lady of Molinot

Marie, Viscountess of Limoges

Guy de Penthièvre

Joan, Duchess of Brittany

Marie of Blois, Duchess of Anjou

Louis II of Anjou

Marie of Anjou

Magdalena of Valois

Catherine of Navarre

Isabel d'Albret of Navarre

René II, Viscount of Rohan

Catherine de Rohan

Countess Palatine Magdalene Catherine of Zweibrücken

Countess Palatine Dorothea Catherine of Birkenfeld-Bischweiler

Countess Anna Catherine of Nassau-Ottweiler

From this point Wikipedia doesn't say one way or the other if any daughters had children

This line is disputed actually but if true it's more senior then the Judith of Friuli lines.

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Ingeltrude

Hedwig of Babenberg

Henry the Fowler

Hedwig of Saxony

Beatrice of France

Ida of Lorraine

Werner I, Count of Klettgau

Otto II, Count of Habsburg

Werner II, Count of Habsburg

Albert III, Count of Habsburg

Rudolf II, Count of Habsburg

Albert IV, Count of Habsburg

Rudolf I of Germany

Matilda of Habsburg

Agnes of Bavaria, Margravine of Brandenburg

Agnes

Adelaide of Nassau

Ulrich IV, Lord of Hanau

Ulrich V, Lord of Hanau

Elisabeth of Hanau, Countess of Hohenlohe

Elisabeth wife of Louis V, Lord of Lichtenberg and Hugo XIII, Count of Montfort-Rotenfels-Langenargen

Below is a line I first documented from Berengar I of Italy because Gisela's own page didn't mention her daughters

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Berengar I of Italy

Gisela of Friuli

Berengar II of Italy

Rozala of Italy

Baldwin IV, Count of Flanders

Judith of Flanders

Henry IX, Duke of Bavaria

Judith of Bavaria, Duchess of Swabia

Bertha, Duchess of Lorraine

Alice of Lorraine

Odo III, Duke of Burgundy

Hugh IV, Duke of Burgundy

Margaret, Lady of Molinot

Marie, Viscountess of Limoges

Guy de Penthièvre

Joan, Duchess of Brittany

Marie of Blois, Duchess of Anjou

Louis II of Anjou

Marie of Anjou

Magdalena of Valois

Catherine of Navarre

Isabel d'Albret of Navarre

René II, Viscount of Rohan

Catherine de Rohan

Countess Palatine Magdalene Catherine of Zweibrücken

Countess Palatine Dorothea Catherine of Birkenfeld-Bischweiler

Countess Anna Catherine of Nassau-Ottweiler

From this point Wikipedia doesn't say one way or the other if any daughters had children

Female Only Primogeniture succession from Gisela

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Judith of Friuli

Gisela (mother of Regelinda)

Regelinda of Zürich

Ida of Swabia

Mathilde, Abbess of Essen

Charlemagne

Louis the Pious

Gisela

Ingeltrude

Hedwig of Babenberg

Oda of Saxony

Oda of Metz

Female Prefrence Promigenture descent from Eleanor of Aquitaine

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Marie of Champagne, Latin Empress of Constantinople

Margaret II, Countess of Flanders

John I, Count of Hainaut

John II, Count of Holland

Mary of Avesnes

Marie de Bourbon, Princess of Achaea

Hugh of Lusignan

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Marie of Champagne, Latin Empress of Constantinople

Margaret II, Countess of Flanders

John I, Count of Hainaut

John II, Count of Holland

Mary of Avesnes

Beatrice of Bourbon, Queen of Bohemia

Wenceslaus I, Duke of Luxembourg

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Marie of Champagne, Latin Empress of Constantinople

Margaret II, Countess of Flanders

John I, Count of Hainaut

John II, Count of Holland

Mary of Avesnes

Peter I, Duke of Bourbon

Joanna of Bourbon

Charles VI of France

Isabella of Valois

Joan of Valois, Duchess of Alençon

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Marie of Champagne, Latin Empress of Constantinople

Margaret II, Countess of Flanders

John I, Count of Hainaut

John II, Count of Holland

Mary of Avesnes

Peter I, Duke of Bourbon

Joanna of Bourbon

Charles VI of France

Joan of France, Duchess of Brittany

Isabella of Brittany

Jeanne de Laval

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Marie of Champagne, Latin Empress of Constantinople

Margaret II, Countess of Flanders

John I, Count of Hainaut

John II, Count of Holland

Mary of Avesnes

Peter I, Duke of Bourbon

Joanna of Bourbon

Charles VI of France

Joan of France, Duchess of Brittany

Francis I, Duke of Brittany

Margaret of Brittany

Eleanor of Aquitaine

Marie of France, Countess of Champagne

Marie of Champagne, Latin Empress of Constantinople

Margaret II, Countess of Flanders

John I, Count of Hainaut

John II, Count of Holland

Mary of Avesnes

Peter I, Duke of Bourbon

Joanna of Bourbon

Charles VI of France

Joan of France, Duchess of Brittany

Francis I, Duke of Brittany

Marie of Brittany, Viscountess of Rohan

Anne, Viscountess of Rohan

René I, Viscount of Rohan

René II, Viscount of Rohan

Catherine de Rohan

Magdalena Catherine, Countess Palatine of Zweibrücken

Dorothea Catherine of Birkenfeld-Bischweiler

Anna Catherine of Nassau-Ottweiler

Charles, Wild- and Rhinegrave of Salm-Dhaun

John Philip III, Wild- and Rhinegrave of Salm-Dhaun

Ancestry of Charlemagne

= means Siblings who had children together

& means are Siblings but didn't have children together (at least relevent to the line being covered)

+ means had children together but aren't siblings (sometimes are cousins though)

| means are same generation on genealogy but not directly connected

Charlemagne's Descent from Seleucid Dynasty (is different from the line this old post was about).

Seleucus I Nicator + Apama

Antiochus I Soter & Achaeus

Antiochus II Theos = Laodice I

Seleucus II Callinicus & Laodice wife of Mithridates II of Pontus

Antiochus III the Great + Laodice III

Seleucus IV Philopator = Laodice IV

Demetrius I Soter

Demetrius II Nicator + Cleopatra Thea

Antiochus VIII Grypus + Tryphaena

Laodice VII Thea, wife of Mithridates I Callinicus

Antiochus I Theos of Commagene

Mithridates II of Commagene & Athenais of Media Atropatene

Mithridates III of Commagene + Iotapa

Antiochus III of Commagene = Iotapa

Antiochus IV Epiphanes of Commagene = Julia Iotapa

Julia Iotapa, wife of Gaius Julius Alexander

Julia Iotapa (Cilician princess)

Julia Quadratilla, wife of Gaius Julius Lupus Titus Vibius Varus Laevillus

Aulus Julius Claudius Charax

Julia, wife of Gaius Asinius Rufus

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus

Gaius Asinius Protimus Quadratus, Proconcul of Achaea

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus Julianus, Proconsul of Asia

Asinia Juliana Nicomacha, wife of Quintus Anicius Faustus

Anicius Faustus, Consul in 298

Amnius Anicius Julianus, Consul in 322

Amnius Anicius Paulinus, Consul in 334

Anicius Auchenius Bassus (prefect)

Tirrania Anicia Juliana, wife of Quintus Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius

Anicia

Adelphius of Limoges

[Name Unknown]

Ruricius Bishop of Limoges

Hiberie de Limoges, wife of Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Descent through Antiochus Epiphanes himself

Antiochus IV Epiphanes = Laodice IV

Laodice, wife of Mithridates V of Pontus

Mithridates VI of Pontus

Cleopatra of Pontus, wife of Tigranes The Great

[Name Unkown], wife of Mithridates of Media Atropatene

Ariobarzanes I of Media Atropatene

Artavasdes I of Media Atropatene

Mithridates III of Commagene + Iotapa

Antiochus III of Commagene = Iotapa

Antiochus IV Epiphanes of Commagene = Julia Iotapa

Julia Iotapa, wife of Gaius Julius Alexander

Julia Iotapa (Cilician princess)

Julia Quadratilla, wife of Gaius Julius Lupus Titus Vibius Varus Laevillus

Aulus Julius Claudius Charax

Julia, wife of Gaius Asinius Rufus

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus

Gaius Asinius Protimus Quadratus, Proconcul of Achaea

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus Julianus, Proconsul of Asia

Asinia Juliana Nicomacha, wife of Quintus Anicius Faustus

Anicius Faustus, Consul in 298

Amnius Anicius Julianus, Consul in 322

Amnius Anicius Paulinus, Consul in 334

Anicius Auchenius Bassus (prefect)

Tirrania Anicia Juliana, wife of Quintus Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius

Anicia

Adelphius of Limoges

[Name Unknown]

Ruricius Bishop of Limoges

Hiberie de Limoges, wife of Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Charlemagne's descent from the Herodian Dynasty

Antipater the Idumaean

Herod the Great

Alexander

Gaius Julius Alexander

Tigranes VI of Armenia

Gaius Julius Alexander, Ruler of Cetis in Cilicia

Julia Iotapa (Cilician princess)

Julia Quadratilla, wife of Gaius Julius Lupus Titus Vibius Varus Laevillus

Aulus Julius Claudius Charax

Julia, wife of Gaius Asinius Rufus

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus

Gaius Asinius Protimus Quadratus, Proconcul of Achaea

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus Julianus, Proconsul of Asia

Asinia Juliana Nicomacha, wife of Quintus Anicius Faustus

Anicius Faustus, Consul in 298

Amnius Anicius Julianus, Consul in 322

Amnius Anicius Paulinus, Consul in 334

Anicius Auchenius Bassus (prefect)

Tirrania Anicia Juliana, wife of Quintus Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius

Anicia

Adelphius of Limoges

[Name Unknown]

Ruricius Bishop of Limoges

Hiberie de Limoges, wife of Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Charlemagne's descent from the Hasmoneans

The Priestly Order of Joarib

Asamoneus

Simeon

John

Mattathias

Simon Thassi

John Hyrcanus

Alexander Jannaeus + Salome Alexandra

Aristobulus II     & Hyrcanus II

Alexander          + Alexandra

Mariamne the Hasmonean, wife of Herod The Great

Alexander

Gaius Julius Alexander

Tigranes VI of Armenia

Gaius Julius Alexander, Ruler of Cetis in Cilicia

Julia Iotapa (Cilician princess)

Julia Quadratilla, wife of Gaius Julius Lupus Titus Vibius Varus Laevillus

Aulus Julius Claudius Charax

Julia, wife of Gaius Asinius Rufus

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus

Gaius Asinius Protimus Quadratus, Proconcul of Achaea

Gaius Asinius Nicomachus Julianus, Proconsul of Asia

Asinia Juliana Nicomacha, wife of Quintus Anicius Faustus

Anicius Faustus, Consul in 298

Amnius Anicius Julianus, Consul in 322

Amnius Anicius Paulinus, Consul in 334

Anicius Auchenius Bassus (prefect)

Tirrania Anicia Juliana, wife of Quintus Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius

Anicia

Adelphius of Limoges

[Name Unknown]

Ruricius Bishop of Limoges

Hiberie de Limoges, wife of Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Charlemagne's descent from Late Roman Aristocracy of Gaul

Ferreolus, a Roman Senator

Tonantius Ferreolus (prefect)

Tonantius Ferreolus II

Tonantius Ferreolus III

Ansbert

Arnoald

Itta, wife of Pepin of Landen

Begga, wife of Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Charlemagne's descent from the Merovingians

Childeric I

Clovis I

Chlothar I

Charibert I

Blithilde, wife of Ansbert

Arnoald

Itta, wife of Pepin of Landen

Begga, wife of Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Charlemagne's descent from Bishops of Lyon

Eucherius Bishop of Lyon + Galla

Tullia

Aquilinus

Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Maternal Ancestry of Charlemagne's mother's father

Irmina of Oeren

Bertrada of Prüm

Charibert of Laon

Bertrada of Laon

Charlemagne

I may update this post in the future to add more lines. 

One theory I have that I can't prove, but if true would strengthen the lines I've already looked into is that Erato of Armenia was the mother of Tigranes VI of Armenia.  I think she did marry Tigranes V during his brief reign in Armenia, then after he died did a Levirate marriage with his brother thus becoming the mother of Tigranes VI.

I've also been speculating on the possibility of a connection to the Constantinian Dynasty, cheifly I have a hunch Galla wife of Eucherius of Lyon can be connected to Constantius Gallus through his daughter Anastasia who's mother was Constantina eldest daughter of Constantine The Great.

Now the Cosntantinian Dynasty I speculate may themselves by connected to the Seleucids though Eutropia.  But also if Charlemagne was a potential heir of Constantine that adds legitimacy to his being crowned Western Roman Emperor.

Update:

Charlemagne's descent from the Sceaf

Sceaf

Bedwig

Hwala

Hrathra

itermon

Heremod

Scealdwa

Beaw

Teatwa

Geat

Godwulf

Fin

Firthuwulf

Freawine

Frealaf

Firthuwald

Odin

Sigi

Rerir

Volsung

Sigmund

Sigurd

Gunther

Gondioc

Chilperic II of Burgundy

Clotilda. wife of Clovis I

Chlothar I

Charibert I

Blithilde, wife of Ansbert

Arnoald

Itta, wife of Pepin of Landen

Begga, wife of Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Another Update 

Even more Solid Merovingian descent of Charlemagne.

Childeric I

Clovis I

Chlothar I

Charibert I

Charibert of Hesbaye husband of Wulfgurd

Robert I Bishop of Tours

Lambert I of Hesbaye

Robert II Lord Chanceler of France

Lambert II of Hesbaye

Rotrude of Hesbaye wife of Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Update September 22nd 2023:

More solid Descent from Seleucids, and improves other earlier claims of this post as well.

Seleucus I Nicator + Apama

Antiochus I Soter & Achaeus

Antiochus II Theos = Laodice I

Seleucus II Callinicus & Laodice wife of Mithridates II of Pontus

Antiochus III the Great + Laodice III

Seleucus IV Philopator = Laodice IV

Demetrius I Soter

Demetrius II Nicator + Cleopatra Thea

Antiochus VIII Grypus + Tryphaena

Laodice VII Thea, wife of Mithridates I Callinicus

Antiochus I Theos of Commagene

Mithridates II of Commagene & Athenais of Media Atropatene

Mithridates III of Commagene + Iotapa

Antiochus III of Commagene = Iotapa

Antiochus IV Epiphanes of Commagene = Julia Iotapa

Julia Iotapa, wife of Gaius Julius Alexander

Gaius Julius Alexander Berenicianus

Julia Cassia Alexandra wife of Gaius Avidius Heliodorus

Gaius Avidius Cassius, Usurper Emperor in 175 AD

Avidia Cassia Alexandra

Claudia Vettia Agrippina

Claudia wife of Claudius Capitolinus Bassus, proconsul of Asia

Claudia Capitolina

Amnia Demetrias wife of Anicius Faustus, Consul in 298

Amnius Anicius Julianus, Consul in 322

Amnius Anicius Paulinus, Consul in 334

Anicius Auchenius Bassus (prefect)

Tirrania Anicia Juliana, wife of Quintus Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius

Anicia

Adelphius of Limoges

[Name Unknown]

Ruricius Bishop of Limoges

Hiberie de Limoges, wife of Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Charlamagne's descent from Caesar Augustus

Octavius Caesar Augustus

Julia The Elder

Julia The Younger

Aemilia Lepida

Junia Lepida

Cassius Lepidus

Cassia Lepida

Julia Cassia Alexandra wife of Gaius Avidius Heliodorus

Gaius Avidius Cassius, Usurper Emperor in 175 AD

Avidia Cassia Alexandra

Claudia Vettia Agrippina

Claudia wife of Claudius Capitolinus Bassus, proconsul of Asia

Claudia Capitolina

Amnia Demetrias wife of Anicius Faustus, Consul in 298

Amnius Anicius Julianus, Consul in 322

Amnius Anicius Paulinus, Consul in 334

Anicius Auchenius Bassus (prefect)

Tirrania Anicia Juliana, wife of Quintus Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius

Anicia

Adelphius of Limoges

[Name Unknown]

Ruricius Bishop of Limoges

Hiberie de Limoges, wife of Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Charlemagne's descent from Longinus

Gaius Cassius Longinus, Ides of March

Gaius Cassius Longinus

Gaius Cassius Longinus

Gaius Cassius Longinus, Consul Suffectus Consul in 30 AD

Cassius Lepidus

Cassia Lepida

Julia Cassia Alexandra wife of Gaius Avidius Heliodorus

Gaius Avidius Cassius, Usurper Emperor in 175 AD

Avidia Cassia Alexandra

Claudia Vettia Agrippina

Claudia wife of Claudius Capitolinus Bassus, proconsul of Asia

Claudia Capitolina

Amnia Demetrias wife of Anicius Faustus, Consul in 298

Amnius Anicius Julianus, Consul in 322

Amnius Anicius Paulinus, Consul in 334

Anicius Auchenius Bassus (prefect)

Tirrania Anicia Juliana, wife of Quintus Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius

Anicia

Adelphius of Limoges

[Name Unknown]

Ruricius Bishop of Limoges

Hiberie de Limoges, wife of Rusticus Archbishop of Lyon

Artemia, wife Roman Senator Florentinus

Arthemia, wife of Munderic 

Mummolin

Bodegisel, Based on the Vita Gundolphi

Arnulf of Metz

Ansegisel

Pepin of Herstal

Charles Martel

Pepin The Short

Charlemagne

Is Ezekiel 39 a Prequel to Ezekiel 38?

[Update April 2023: I've mostly abandoned this theory and now just place both chapter after The Millennium.  That said there is I feel some value in some of the observations I made here.]

The name Gog is in The Bible outside Ezekiel and Revelation.  Everyone knows Magog is, as a son of Japheth.  However I have realized that Gog is as well (and I'm not referring to those Septuagint additions either, this is in the KJV and the Masoretic Text).  But first the main topic for this study.

I did a post on Ezekiel 38 and 39 being after the Millennium, in the context of Chris White's argument.  I wavered there a bit but ultimately came to agree with Chris.  Back then I still supported identifying Magog, Rosh, Meshech and Tubal with Russia, but I've now come to be more willing to agree with White's identifications for the locations of the nations involved also.

I alluded in that post to having once seen but forgotten where an assessment that Ezekiel 39 takes place before Ezekiel 38.  I've now found a website making that argument but I don't think it's what I originally saw.  It argues Ezekiel 39 is Armageddon and Ezekiel 38 is the post Millennial invasion.

https://escapeallthesethings.com/gog-magog/
I haven't looked at other articles on that site.  I suspect there is plenty I disagree with, I'm here endorsing only possibly this article.  I left a Comment that may or may not ever get approved where I made some incorrect statements since I didn't think them through well enough.  I'll try to say what I meant to better here.

First, when making an argument like this, it's useful to state that you're aware the modern chapter divisions aren't in the original text.  In this case the first verse of Chapter 39 does make sense as a partial change of topic, and the last verse of 38 does sound kind of like a conclusion.

Now I have dedicated this Blog to arguing Revelation needs to be interpreted Chronologically.  But the reason I emphasis that is because it's what's distinct about Revelation from other Prophetic books.  Others aren't even all one vision unless it's really short.  And even within one vision or revelation there are reasons why it could suit Yahuah to show some things out of order.  The difference in Revelation is John is being shown a clear sequence of events.  And that the Book defines itself as how to make sense of the rest of The Bible.

So I'm not 100% sure I agree with this view of Ezekiel 38 and 39 yet, but I want to have a conversation about it.

As for why would God show Ezekiel these battles out of order?  Why do so many Historical movies not start at the beginning of what they're going to show?  Why did Star Wars start with Episode IV?

The core argument for seeing Ezekiel 39 as Armageddon is that Revelation 19 :17-21's language of the birds devouring the flesh of the defeated armies is borrowed from Ezekiel 39.  Indeed people who argue both chapters are about Armageddon have this as their strongest argument, while I defending a Post-Millennial view argued that could be generic battle aftermath imagery, what's more important is John used proper names from Ezekiel 38&39 in chapter 20 not 19.  However that was always the one exception to my strong conviction that when Revelation is explicitly drawing on imagery from an Old Testament Prophecy, it is depicting that same Prophecy.  Now a solution to that problem exists, and so I can point out how language of Ezekiel 39 is drawn on in Revelation 19 before the Millennium and language of Ezekiel 38 is drawn on in Revelation 20 after The Millennium.

To the objection that implies it's inaccurate to define Armageddon as an invasion from the north, I wouldn't address that how this article did at all.  The Hill of Megiddo is not the site of the battle but the gathering place of The Beast's Armies.  They are planning to attack Jerusalem, though they may be cut off at Bethel before they get there.  Or they are headed to The Woman's hiding place in The Wilderness (Arabia).  Either way, they are coming to their target from the North, Megiddo was in the Northern Kingdom, close to the northern extremity of what was allotted to Western Manasseh.

It's possible, though maybe a stretch, that Gog is only really an individual in chapter 39, that Ezekiel 38 means Gog as a geographical or tribal indicator.  Some things said in 38 might be a little difficult to interpret that way, but it's possible.  There are other Prophecies where Yahuah seems to speak to nations as if they were individuals.  Also remember that translators sometimes add more pronouns than the original Hebrew directly justifies.

Revelation 20 definitely seems to be using Gog not as a person but as a location or tribe, that is why it (and never Ezekiel) says the three word phrase "Gog and Magog", they are refereed to as two of the same kind of thing.

Meanwhile Ezekiel 39 describes the place where Gog will be buried being named after him.  That will be important later.

Also Ezekiel 39 never directly refers to Magog as being part of the invasion, it says that when the invaders are destroyed he'll also send fire on Magog and "them that dwell carelessly in the Isles".  39 also never mentions Persia, Cush, Phut, Gomer and Togarmah, Tarshish or Sheba and Dedan.

Revelation 20 gets mistakenly claimed to have all nations involved.  It just says the Nations in the four Corners, it doesn't say all.  Ezekiel 38's alliance represents all four corners, Phut in the West, Cush in the South, Persia in the East, and Gog, Gomer and Togarmah are associated with the north.

I also think Armageddon may not be as absolutely everyone as people assume.  I've talked on this blog about how I view the 6th Bowl of Wrath in Revelation 16 as being about the Scattered House of Ephraim returning to their land, in Northern Manasseh.

The idea that one or both Gog and Magog invasions are about the scattered Northern Israelites in some capacity is supported by the Four Corners terminology, as God said Israel would be scattered to the Four Corners, and also by Revelation 20:8 saying their Number was as the Sand of The Sea, an idiom repeatedly used of Israel's numbers in God's Promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and of specifically the North in Hosea.

Meshech and Tubal can both be associated with ancient Uratu, in modern Kurdistan, near where the Assyrians took the Northern Tribes they deported, and where the Kingdom of Adiabene emerged in the first century.  Uratu also had four ancient Kings named Rusa.  So maybe "Prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal", should instead be "Prince Rosh of Meshech and Tubal"?  But also one of these Rusa had a location named after him, Rusahinili.  There is also a Rosh of the tribe of Benjamin mentioned in Genesis.

This article unlike others seeking to identify a Gog invasion with Armageddon, insists Gog can't be The Beast since The Beast is cast into the Lake of Fire, and not killed or buried.  Indeed, it may instead be that Gog is one of the Kings of The East, along with Rosh.  But maybe there are other ways to look at it, who knows.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ezekiel 38 is about the post Millennial Gog and Magog invasion of Revelation 20.  Ezekiel 39 is either more on that, or it's Armageddon, but there is no Pre-Trib or Mid-Trib Gog and Magog invasion.

Ironically we are now in an era where it's liberals/leftists who are paranoid about Russia.

Now what about that reference to Gog I promised?  It's in 1 Chronicles Chapter 5 verses 4-6.  The context is talking about the Tribe of Reuben at the time they were deported by Assyria in about 745 BC.

The sons of Joel: Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son, Micah his son, Reaiah his son, Baal his son, Beerah his son, whom Tilgath-pilneser king of Assyria carried away captive: he was prince of the Reubenites.

So it seems Joel was a Prince of Reuben at the time of the captivity, and he and his seven sons were carried away into captivity.  And his second son was named Gog.  The word for Prince used here is Nasi, same as in Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Why am I certain this isn't just a coincidence of names?  Because Ezekiel 39:11 says the place where Gog is buried is east of the sea, all scholars agree the Dead Sea is meant here.  Reuben was one of the trans-Jordan tribes, and the only one who was far enough south to be east of the Dead Sea.  My English language Jerusalem Bible has a footnote here implying that the river Arnon is specifically mentioned.  I'm not sure why it thinks that, might be something lost in translation, but I mention it because it's consistent with what I just said, the Arnon was meant to be the southern border of Reuben, the border between Reuben and Moab.

So the reason Gog is being associated with persons or peoples separated by over a Thousand Years is I think because it's identifying descent from Gog ben Joel of the Tribe of Reuben.

People who want to interpret Ezekiel as just referring to his own time like to see Gog as Gyges of Lydia.  Well Gyges, who was called Gugu in Assyrian inscriptions, died before Ezekiel's time.  But I do think Gyges could be the same individual as the Gog of 1 Chronicles 5.

The deportation of the Trans-Jordan tribes was in 745 BC.  Gyges reigned from 716 to 678 BC.  If he was Joel's second born son he could have been between 7-20 years old when deported.

Gygyes' story in Greek sources has a lot of myth mingled in.  Needless to say I don't think he was the son of a Dascylus.  The story of him being a Bodyguard could be plausible, sometimes kings have used foreign mercenaries as Bodyguards, like Caligula, and Israelites living in Exile could have been attracted to such a job.

The version of his rise to power that involves him sleeping with the prior King's wife, have the potential to remind a Biblically literate reader of Reuben's sin.  That could mean one of two things.  The story is made up but Gyges encouraged it out of affinity with his ancestor. Or that it's a trait he inherited.

Gyges could be an ancestor of Cyrus.  A later king of Lydia from his dynasty, Alyattes, had a daughter named Aryenis who married Astagyes of Media and may have been the mother of Cyrus's mother Mandane.  A daughter of Cyrus married Dairus I and was the mother of Xerxes, who was probably an ancestor of Apamea royal wife of Seleucus I, who I've shown were ancestors of Charlemagne.  In that line from Seleucus to Charlemagne were princes of Galatia.

Cyrus went on to conqueror Lydia, ending Gyges' dynasty.   At that point you could argue he fully became a successor of Gyges.

Making a Reubanite prince an ancestor of Charlemagne would be interesting to Britam supporters, since they like to make France Reuben.  France having it's own River Arnon is an interesting coincidence.  And it's also interesting here how both Eugene Sue in Les Mysteries du People and Paul Feval in Anne of the Isles (Translated into English by Brian Stableford published by BlackCoatPress) construct fictional narratives with a mythical patriarch of a clan of Pre-Christian and Pre-Roman Gallic (specifically Bretan) France named Joel.

But as interesting as that all is, I think the Gog(s) of Ezekiel and Revelation will be attacking from Turkey or Northern Iraq.

Update: More on Lydia

The city of Sardis wasn't always called that it seems.  Homer called it Hyde, and I agree with the theory that Homer was contemporary with Gyges.  The oldest surviving reference to it being called Sardis is in the 470s BC.

I've talked on my Revised Chronology Blog about the Sherden/Shardana of the Seas Peoples being linked to both Sardis and Sardinia and possibly descending from the Sardite clan, descendants of Sered of the Tribe of Zebulun in Numbers 26:26.

In Gyges time however the Sherden were not yet native to Sardis, but were among the foreign mercenaries he was using and also recommended to Psamtick I of Egypt (Seti I in my chronology).  The son of a Reubanite prince using members of other Tribes as mercenaries would certainly be interesting.

The Masoretic Text's Hebrew spelling of Gog is Gimel-Vav-Gimel, and Magog is Mem-Gimel-Vav-Gimel.  But the vav like yot was sometimes used like a vowel in the Masoretic text, so some people theorize for words like this the vav might not have been used originally.  This factors into two theories about the etymology of Gog and Magog.

One is the idea that Magog is a Hebrew code for Babel (Babylon).  If the Vav is dropped then you get Magog from taking the next letter after it in the alphabet for each letter of Magog and then turning it backwards.  Gog then becomes just Bab, which means gate in the pagan etymology of Bab-El.  Makes me think of the Persian false prophet known as The Bab (but there was also Babai The Great an important 7th Century leader of the Church of The East).

The other is the theory that Agag might be a related name.  The Septuagint replaces Agag with Gog in Balaam's oracles, in Numbers 24:7, and I've heard the Samaritan Pentateuch does as well, the Samritians don't regard any of the Prophets so had no bias to want to add a name made famous by Ezekiel (or possibly Amos).

In the context of looking for Gog in Media or Persia, it's interesting to remember that Haman was called an Agagite (technically his parent, presumably father, was).  The Septuagint additions to Esther has the Persian King call Haman a Macedonian.  Maybe Makedon could be related to Magog somehow?  But also a Macedonian princess named Gygaea married a Persian noble and was the mother of another Persian noble.  Gygaea was also an ancient name for Lake Mamara in Lydia.

Update April 2020: Maybe Ezekiel 37's relationship is the same, maybe it's the Bodily Resurrection and final regathering of Israel that doesn't happen till the White Throne Judgment leading into the descent of New Jerusalem.  So we have three straight chapters that perhaps should be read in reverse?

Genealogy of The Antichrist: Antiochus to Charlemagne

St. Arnulf of Metz is a 33–generation descendant of Antio-
chos II
Theos
Numbers in each generation follow
Ahnentafel
coding.
Generation 1
1. St. Arnulf of Metz,
maiordomus
in the kingdom of Austrasia
(c.582–16.8.640). He married Dode (–?–), daughter of Arnold of Schelde,
after 611.
Generation 2
2. Bodogisel, ambassador to Byzantium in 589.
Generation 3
4. Mummolin,
maiordomus
in 566 in Neustria.
Generation 4
9. NN. married to Munderic.
Generation 5
19. Artemie, married in 513to Florentinus, bishop of Geneve.
Generation 6
38. Rustique, bishop of Lyon between 494 and 501
Generation 7
76. Rurice de Limoges, bishop of Limoges c. 485-507
Generation 8
152. NN.
Generation 9
304. Adelphius.
Generation 10
609. Anicia, married to Pontius.
Generation 11
1219. Turrenia Anicia Iuliana, married to Quintus Clodius
Hermogenianus Olybrius, consul in 379.
Generation 12
2438. Anicius Auchenius Bassus, prefect in 382 in Rome, mar-
ried to Turrenia Honorata.
Generation 13
4876. Amnius Manius Cæsonius Nicomachus Anicius Paulinus
Honorius, consul in 334.
Generation 14
9752. Amnius Anicius Iulianus, consul in 322.
Generation 15
19504. Sextus Anicius Faustus, consul in 298.
Generation 16
39009. Asinia Iuliana Nichomacha, married to Quintus Ani-
cius Faustus.
Generation 17
78018. Caius Asinius Nicomachus Iulianus, proconsul in Asia
circa 250.
Generation 18
156036. Caius Asinius Quadratus Protimus, proconsul in A-
khaia circa 220.
Generation 19
312072. Caius Asinius Quadratus, historian, c. 200.
Generation 20
624144. Caius Iulius Asinius Quadratus.
Generation 21
1248288. Caius Iulius Quadratus Bassus, consul in 105, mar-
ried to Asinia Marcella.
Generation 22
2496576. Caius Iulius Bassus, proconsul in Bithynia, 98.
Generation 23
4993152. Caius Iulius Severus, nobleman from Akmoneia in
Galatia.
Generation 24
9986304. Artemidoros, nobleman in Galatia.
Generation 25
19972608. Amyntas, tetrarcus of Trocmes.
Generation 26
39945217. NN., married to Brogitarix, king of Galatia c. 63–50
b.C.
Generation 27
79890435. Berenike, married to Deiotarix I, king of Galatia,
63–41 b.C.
Generation 28
159780871. NN. (daughter).
Generation 29
319561742. Attalos Philometor III, king of Pergamon, 138–133
b.C.
Generation 30
639123485. Stratonike of Kappadokia, married to Eumenes,
king of Pergamon, 197–159 b.C.
Generation 31
1278246970. Ariarathes IV Eusebes Philopator, king of Cap-
padokia, 220–163b.C.
Generation 32
2556493941. Stratonike, married to Ariarathes III.
Generation 33
5112987882. Antiochos II Theos I, king of Syria, 261–246 b.C.,
b. 290 b.C.

I copied the above line of descent from another source, but because other things in that source are bad info I don't want link to it. But this line of decent I have studied generation by generation and it's valid, though a few mistakes might have been made in exactly how it was expressed.  At a certain point it overlaps with my Genealogy of Commanege, Julia the wife of Gaius Julius Quadratus was the daughter of Gaius Julius Alexander and Iotapa daughter of Anitochus IV of Commagene.  From them came the Historian of 200 AD.

Arnulf of Metz's son Ansegisel married Saint Begga, the daughter of Pepin of Landen. They had Pepin of Herstal the father of Charles Martel, the father of Pepin the Short, the father of Charlemagne.

Ansegisel and Begga also had a daughter Clotilda of Heristal who was married to the Merovingian king Theoderic III of of Neustria and Austrasia. Bertrada of Prum was very likely their daughter, she was the mother of Caribert of Laon.  His daughter daughter Bertrada of Laon was the wife of Pepin the Short mentioned above and mother of Charlemagne.

Another note on the above line of descent. Munderic claimed to be a son of Chlodoric the Parricide, who's called that because he murdered his own father, Sigobert the Lame, in order to take his kingdom. Chlodoric acted upon the instigation of Clovis I a rival king of the Salian Franks. After Sigobert's death Clovis then accused Chlodoric of the murder and had him killed in his turn for the crime. In this way Clovis became king of Sigobert's and Chlodoric's lands. Sigobert the lame could be a descendant of Merovee by a line independent of Clovis I.

It is well known that pretty much all modern European Royalty can claim descent from Charlemagne.  And other prominent families too.  It's been claimed in Conspiracy theory circles that almost all Presidents of The United States are descendants of Charlemagne.  I'm not sure how verifiable that claim is.

Charlemagne also as can be shown above had Merovingian ancestry.  So that can tie into theories about how DaVinci Code type claims might be used.  But other means exist to try and give this same European Royalty Davidic Ancestry.
http://www.britam.org/Tribesman/GeneaologyDavid.html
The theories being drawn on here have been discredited by many skeptics.

But it's interesting, between that and the Armenian/Georgian royalty.  We have a lot of people with Seleucid descent and also claims to Davidic descent.