Showing posts with label Seed of The Woman. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Seed of The Woman. Show all posts

Saturday, March 26, 2016

The Woman of Revelation 12

I've argued before that The Man-Child is The Church, using Isaiah 66 to back that up, and thus that puts The Rapture at the Midway Point.

This agrees with the view that The Woman is Israel, thus refuting any views making Israel and The Church exactly the same.  I'm not a traditional dispensationalist, but there is a clear distinction.

This is proven by lots of old Prophetic references to Israel/Jerusalem being a woman (like Isaiah 62:4 where she is named Hephzibah), and often travailing in child birth, like Jeremiah 6 and Isaiah 66.

The Sun, Moon and Stars imagery comes from Genesis 37:9-10, one of Joseph's dreams.
"Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me."  And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, "What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?"
Which defines for us the Sun and Moon as Jacob and his Wife, and the eleven stars as Joseph's eleven brothers.  Revelation 12 has twelve stars because now Joseph is included.

Commentators repeatedly claim the Sun is Jacob and the Moon is Rachel, but that is wrong.  The mother in mind here is clearly Leah not Rachel because Rachel had died before Joseph had this dream and so clearly never bowed before Joseph in Egypt when this was fulfilled.  What confuses people is Jacob saying "your mother" to Joseph.  But I don't doubt that by this point Leah was a mother to all 12 sons.

I argued in my Time of Jacob's Trouble post that Rachel in a sense serves typologically as a female personification of Israel.  Through Benjamin and Joseph she was a mother to populations in both Kingdoms.

In Genesis 35:19 and 48:7 Rachel dies after giving birth to Benjamin and was buried in the same land that will become Bethlehem.  (Some have argued those events only happened on the way to Bethlehem, either way they are thematically tied to Bethlehem by God's Word.)  When the children of Bethlehem were slaughtered by Herod, Matthew 2:18 quotes Jeremiah 31:15.
Thus saith Yahuah; "A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not."
So I think the reason the Woman herself is not in the dream in Genesis 37 is because the Woman in a sense is Rachel.  Because it was a Tribe born to Leah that had Bethlehem when that slaughter happened, yet Rachel weeped for them as her own children.

Update June 2017: Virgo

 I'm now much more skeptical of the Mazaroth and Gospel In The Stars type theories then I used to be.  And I've already done a post refuting that hype around the September 2017 alignment.  But for sake of reference I'll talk about how the desire to associate Virgo with the Woman of Revelation 12 can back up her being in a sense Rachel.

There are different takes on which Signs to identify with which Tribes.  But the main form I'm familiar with is one that makes Issachar the tribe Virgo represents.  Many then note how the traditional site of Nazareth is in land allotted to Issachar (near Japhia), and Nazareth can be associated with The Virgin Mary.

The reason however for this argument to associate Issachar with Virgo revolves around Rachel in the narrative in Genesis 30:14-18.
"The young woman (Virgo) carries a branch (of mandrakes) and a stalk of harvested wheat, because at the harvest-time (stalk of harvested wheat) Issachar (whose name means hired man) was conceived by Leah after hiring her husband for the night from Rachel, Rachel receiving as her hire the mandrakes which Leah's son had found in the fields. The mandrakes were desired by Rachel because she hoped their aphrodisiac powers would help her conceive, when before this she had been barren (Virgo = virgin). And, indeed, she did conceive immediately thereafter, bringing forth her firstborn son, Joseph, typing the Promised Seed, the Messiah Jesus, born from the Virgin (Virgo) Mary. Rachel (Virgo) is seen in the sign carrying off the mandrakes, to represent the hiring from which Issachar received his name, and bearing the Seed (the star Spica, Ear of Corn), as a prophecy of the coming Messiah. A subjoined constellation, Coma, the "Hair" of the Virgin (representing the hair of the wheat plant ["mother"] which bears the Seed), was in ancient times depicted as a Virgin bearing a young boy on her lap. The Arabs said this young boy was Jesus, the Messiah, and claimed that an ancient prophecy of the Magi foretold that a great star would beam forth in this sign at the time the Messiah was born."
So, that is quite interesting.

Thursday, February 25, 2016

How could Jesus be the Seed of Abraham without a Human Father?

I was watching on Youtube a few days ago a debate between David Wood and a Muslim named Zakir Hussain about Isaac or Ishmael.  In it Zakir Hussain criticizes the Christian view of how Jesus relates to the promise given to Abraham in Genesis 12 and 15 by saying Jesus couldn't be the Seed of Abraham without a human father (Muslims do believe in The Virgin Birth) since Seed strictly speaking refer to pater-lineal descent.

While normally Seed refers to pater-lineal ancestry being most literally a Hebrew word for Semen/Sperm.  The very beginning of Messianic Prophecy from the Christian POV at least is Genesis 3:15 making a very abnormal reference to "The Seed of the Woman".

I could also say the Koran does call Jesus the Messiah (Al-Maish) of Israel, and He couldn't have been that without being of the Seed of David.  So he is not actually helping the Muslim case.

Zakir Hussain did make one comment during the debate about the Y-Chromosome, implying he could accept that as an acceptable literal interpretation of what Seed refers to.

Which leads me to bring up something I thought about a long time ago, but was hesitant to go public with it precisely because a statement in the Koran played a role in my coming up with it.  But since a Muslim broached the issue.

Sura 3 verse 36.
And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female - Allah knew best of what she was delivered - the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast.
The Koran defines Mary the mother of Jesus as inter-sex.  Well, the terminology it uses is actually exactly the modern politically correct terminology for a Trans Man, saying she was mistakenly labeled the wrong gender at birth based on how she looked.  But the intent was to say Mary internally has some biological maleness to her and that is how she could give birth as a Virgin.  This is the Islamic explanation for how the Virgin Birth was possible without Jesus being Divine.

There are examples of women being born with a Y-Chromosome.  Often these women aren't able to reproduce but there is at least one documented exception to that.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/
[Report of Fertility in a Woman with a Predominantly 46,XY Karyotype in a Family with Multiple Disorders of Sexual Development]

Since the discovery of modern DNA and how the Y-Chromosome works, the traditional Christian view of how Jesus could be male even though his only Biological parent was a Female has been that God supernaturally gave Jesus a distinct Y-Chromosome.  Especially with the idea related to genetic memory theory that the Y-Chromosome carries a memory of the first Man, naturally it became popular to see that as scientific confirmation of Original Sin.

But I do not hold the Catholic or Calvinist view of original Sin which both derive from Augustine.  To me it is just a genetic Pre-Disposition to Sin.  Paul said in Hebrews 2:18 that Jesus was tempted by all the same Temptations we are.  So I don't think Jesus was born without that pre-disposition, he simply was alone in being able to overcome it.

So I'm very open to the possibility that Mary was inter-sex and Jesus was able to through her carry the Y-Chromosome of David and Abraham and Adam.  And maybe that is the full explanation of what the Seed of The Woman means.

But regardless of my willingness to think the Koran might have been onto something there.  I firmly believe Jesus was The Son of God, The Word made Flesh.  And I have before argued for the Deity of The Messiah from The TNAK.

The Biblical basis for this theory is the doctrine of the Seed of the Woman.

This same debate also mentioned Isaiah 53.  Zakir Hussain objected to the Christian view of this being Jesus since it refers to him having Seed in verse 10.  David Wood responded that Christians are spiritually of Jesus Seed.  And the Zakir said in the Hebrew it's Zerah so can only mean physical.

A word having a literal meaning does not mean a spiritual or symbolic application is impossible.  If you're gonna take that logic there is no need to cite the Hebrew, the literal meaning of Seed is more strict then Zerah, we are being figurative when we use it of Sperm in modern English, literally it refers only to plant seeds.

The plain reading is that people become His seed after His Resurrection.  If Muslims believe (like I do) biological reproduction will go on after the Resurrection then they can't rule out that Jesus could literally fulfill that.  It is an error BTW that the Koran teaches Jesus didn't die, it actually clearly says Jesus did die.

If you're going to agree with the common view of Rabbinic Jews that the Servant is not an individual then you're not taking it literally at all and can't object to a non-literal interpretation of the Seed.

For the record there are a few things in that debate I'm willing to agree with Zakir Hussain over David on.  I plan to do a post or two on Ishmael and Firstborn Inheritance in the near future.  

But his insistence that begotten can be read into Genesis 22:2 is not supported by any Hebrew text I know.  And the abuse of what Genesis 21 says to make it sound like Hagar carried Ishmael not her luggage on her shoulder just made me laugh.

And the Genealogies of Jesus came up.  I have addressed Luke being Mary's genealogy before.

Monday, September 22, 2014

The Desire of Women

Daniel 11:37, is nearly universally agreed by Pre-Millennial Futurists to be about The Antichrist.
"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all."
What is meant by "the desire of women" here is perhaps the most cryptic mystery of this verse.  No identical phrase seems to appear anywhere else in Scripture.

There are two very popular wrong views about this phrase, which derive from a similar bad reading.  That it means he's a Homosexual, or that it means he's a Misogynist.

The latter is usually only argued for by those focused on a Mahdi theory, but even back when I was leaning towards the Madhi view I never considered that argument plausible.  The former happens to fit in with the other great Boogeyman modern Evangelical Christians are afraid of, western liberals.  There are of course LGBT individuals and supporters who are politically "Conservative" in other areas, like Log Cabin Republicans, and Libertarians.

Even if the phrase implied a lack of sexual desire for Women, that doesn't leave Homosexuality as the only option, it could also mean Asexual.  But that's not what the phrase means.  If it was meant to say that it would have said he doesn't desire women.

The grammar is about something women desire, which equally invalidates both those false conclusions.

I agree with both Chuck Missler and Chris White that "The Desire of Women" is a Messianic Title.  And with White that "the God of His Fathers" is The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.  I agree with White's Antichrist Theory in terms of the first half of the 70th Week, but not the second half and his related Pre-Wrath suppositions.  The Willful King will disregard the True Messiah by claiming the title for himself.

The word "Desire" being used in a title for The Messiah has a precedent in Haggai 2:7 "And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts."

The beginning of Messianic Prophecy, in fact all Prophecy, is Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The promise of The Seed of The Woman. 

Later we have Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Luke 1:41-45
 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.  And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?  For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.  And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord."
And at the center of this theme is Revelation 12, where The Woman gives birth to The Man Child.
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 
So "The Desire of Women" is clearly Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.