Daniel 9:27 is about The Cross

I've already talked about how I now believe the 70th Week of Daniel is Nisan of 30 AD to Adar of 37 AD.

But I've been putting a lot of thought into specifically Daniel 9:27 and am starting to think it's about The Passion in even more ways.

First of all what is the Abomination?  

This ties in with how I have come to view John 5:43 as fulfilled by John 19:15 when the Chief Priest says "We have no King but Caesar".  I've already talked about how Israel demanding a Human King was them rejecting YHWH as their King, and Caesar was being worshiped as a living God in the Eastern Provinces.  The High Priest committed this idolatrous Abomination the same day he later had to offer the Passover Sacrifice in The Temple.

And as I've pointed out before the "he" associated with the Abomination isn't in the Hebrew, it's not identifying any person as setting it up.

The Hebrew word for "Desolation" or "Desolate" is a word that can also be translated "Abandoned" Jeremiah's Desolation of Jerusalem is about Jerusalem being depopulated after it was conquered by Nebuchadnezzar, but it can also be connected to YHWH's Divine presence leaving The Temple at that same time.  Whatever Divine presence the Second Temple had (in John 4) left it at or before Pentecost to indwell in The Church which is why it's gone in Acts 7.

This word is used twice in Daniel 9:27 however.  In the KJV the verse ends with "upon the desolate" in some translations the last word is "desolator" but in the Young's Literal Translation it's "Desolate one".  On the Cross I think the "abandoned one" is Jesus "my God, my God, why has thou Forsaken me".  

The Consummation and that which was determined or "the decreed end" was poured out onto Jesus on The Cross and then He said "it is finished".

The 7 Year Covenant is not a Peace Treaty

I think Chris is Right and Wrong about much of this.

I now view the 70th Week of Daniel as fulfilled in the first Advent of Jesus, and that The Antichrist is mentioned in Daniel 9 only possibly in being the Abomination alluded to.  Which contrary to many translations is not set up by the same person who confirms the Covenant and stops the Daily Sacrifice.

But I think maybe the 70th Week has End Times relevance only in that an Antichrist will seek to claim he's The Messiah.  Though I do not view that scenario the same way Chris White does.  Though that could just be me seeking an excuse to not do all the work that changing the URL of this Blog would entail.

Yom Teruah is coming up

Nehemia Gordon did a study just recently called "How Yom Teruah became Rosh Hoshanna".  Which is informative.

He also talks about how the sounding of the Jubliee on Yom Kippur was not during the Jubilee year but to announce it was coming in the middle of the 49th Year, a fact I'd already heard, but not from a source as reliable as him.  I find that intriguing on a number of levels.

Overlap that with aspects of my Time of Jacob's Trouble post, and maybe I should leave my Mid-Trib variant view and consider founding a Mid Seventh Year Rapture view.  That would affiliate the Seventh Trumpet and Last Trump of The Rapture with the Jubliee Trumpet, making the end of Revelation 11, all of 12 and start of 13 about Yom Kippur, the rest of 13 and all of 14 and 15 between Yom Kippur and Tabernacles, and the Seven Bowls of God's Wrath poured out on the seven days of Tabernacles, with Haggai 2 supported the 7th Bowls being the 21st of Tishrei.  This would adjust my Fall Feasts hypothesis.

The Seventh Trumpet account mentions God's Temple in Heaven being opened and The Ark of His Covenant being seen.  That kinda fits Yom Kippur.

Then I would really have to change this blog's URL.

There are other factors I still have to consider.  There is already a Pre-Seventh year view, but they're under the false impression that Nehemia is refuting, that Tishrei can begin a year.

I watched awhile ago a Prophecy Club video called The Chronological Order of the Prophecies in The Jubilees.  There is much of this person's views that are clearly wrong, from his supporting the Britam view of the Lost Tribes, to trying to make the 120 years of Genesis 6 point to 6000 years.  But his evidence for a reckoning of the Jubilees that would have the next jubilee year starting in Spring of 2045 AD (with the Jubilee Trumpet then in fall of 2044) is compelling.  Here is a still I took regarding the Sabbatical Years.

The view of the 70 Weeks I've been favoring had the Decree of Artaxerxes in Nissan 454 BC putting the 70th week in 30-37 AD.  But many have, using much of the same evidence, argued for the Decree being Nissan of 455 BC, and a 70th Week that is 29-36 AD.  I need to look into that more, but if so that would make both the beginning and ending of the 70 weeks the start of Jubilee years in the above Jubilee model, which makes sense.

I've seen people argue for both 29 and 36 AD Crucifixion models.  For the latter that includes Nikos Kokkinos who's theories I may talk about more in a future post.  My personal bias remains 30 AD for the moment however.  But The Resurrection and Acts 2 Pentecost being Jubilee years has a certain symmetry to it.

This makes the latest Jubilee year to happen Spring 1996-Spring 1997.  And before that 1947-1948 which many see as Biblically significant.  Before that 1898-1899, and before that 1849-1850.

This model could place the beginning of the 21 year Time of Jacob's Trouble in Spring of 2024 AD.

Or maybe if someone could argue the above proposed Jubilee cycle is off by a year, to make my original 70s Weeks views match up to Jubilees, things would fit better.  Then it would be during a Jubilee year modern Israel was founded.

If I switched to a Mid 7th Year or mid 49th Year Rapture view.  How do I match up the time-frames?  The ministry of the Witnesses and consecration of the Rebuilt Temple would be around the Nissan that would start year 4 of the relevant Sabbatical cycle.  The 42 Months The Beast is allowed to continue would begin about 6 months later.  And the 1260 days The Woman is in the Wilderness would continue 3 years into The Millennium.  Why would that happen?  Who knows, perhaps I'll think of a reason later.

But I will still never accept a Non Chronological view of Revelation.

I no longer believe in Gaps in Daniel chapters 9 and 11

I've held that view in the past, but I've slowly come to abandon it.  For that reason I changed the name of this blog, I sadly don't know a way to create a full new URL without rending all existing links to this Blog dead.

I had cited Hippolytus as an early source on Gaps in Daniel.  Thing is he's the only Early Church Father to hold this view, he seems to have invented it.  And while I still agree with him more then most Church Fathers on a number of End Times issues, his bizarre views on the Song of Solomon hurts his credibility.  And his view on when the 69th Week ended does not agree with anyone today, he ended it at Jesus Birth.

I first started work on this 70th Week study when I was still against seeing the 70th Week as already fulfilled.  But as you can see my open minded study of the evidence lead me to become convinced that yes the 70th Week was fulfilled from 30-37 AD.  I talked more on that subject here.

I have also shown that Daniel 11:36-45 was about Augustus.

Gaps have nothing to do with making Daniel 2 or 7 End times, they are in nature incredibly broad symbolic visions of all history.  But the visions in Hebrew Daniel are usually more narrow in scope.  The way in which Revelation draws on Daniel is only really explicitly to Daniel 7 and to some extent 12.  That Daniel 12 is jumping from the first to second Advent isn't a Gap really, it is again a broader in scope prophecy.

Matthew 24 is indisputably End Times.  The basis for making material from Hebrew Daniel end times relevant is Jesus saying "The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel The Prophet".  Thing is while terminology similar to that is arguably used in the last verse of Daniel 9, the exact phrase is used in Daniel only in 11 and 12, and in 11 it's not the part any reasonable person argues is before the gap but in the part clearly about Antiochus Epiphanes.

Now I do think it's possible that the 70th Week and Daniel 11:36-45 could have end times relevance via Double Fulfillment.  And I think to an extent even Daniel 12's End Times relevance is via double fulfillment.  But the only thing I see absolutely required to happen again is what Jesus specifically refereed to.

But in the case of the 70th Week I've come to view that as only being applicable if the entire 70 Weeks is fulfilled twice, which I have argued a possible model for on this blog.  If that model doesn't bear out, then Daniel 9 is not End Times relevant.

If Daniel 11's relevance is via double fulfillment  Then when it starts being End Times relevant may have to be pushed sooner, because again it's the phrase "Abomination of Desolation" that is the key to Daniel's End Times relevance.

One thought I just started considering is that maybe two End Times Abomination of Desolation events will happen, one that seems more like a direct repeat of what Epiphanes did at the start of the 70th Week, and then what II Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13 depicts at the Midway Point.  (Update Sept2016: I've now considered an entirely new take on the Abomination of Desolation in Daniel 11.)

Going back to Daniel 9:24, let's look again at what the purpose for the 70 Weeks are.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

It is commonly argued that the Second Advent is required for this to be fully fulfilled, that certain aspects of this clearly aren't fulfilled already.   In fact I've even seen some Christians try to remove the First Advent from this altogether, like Chris White.  To me that grossly undervalues what happened in 30 AD in a way no Christian, no matter how Futurist and Premillennial they are, should be willing to do.

If you think "make an end of sins" means no one will be sinning anymore then you have to move the end of the 70 Weeks to after the Millennium, not before it.  I would be curious to hear someone argue such a theory.  This is referring to Jesus paying the price for Sin on The Cross, when He said "It Is Finished".

Some take "seal up the vision and prophecy" to mean no more Prophecies left to be fulfilled.  Again you have to move the 70th Week to after the Millennium in that case.

I think that the anointing of the most Holy can be seen as fulfilled at Pentecost.

Every argument that the first advent wasn't enough to fulfill that requires an interpretation that places the fulfillment after not before the Millennium.

I feel there is a perfectly very real sense in which all those details were satisfied in 30-37 AD.

In my past study on the first 69 Weeks proving they ended in 30 AD.  I justified the gap concept not with the usual Pre-Tirb/Dispensationalist the Gap is the Church Age logic.  But by arguing that since it revolved around The Temple, the Gap was from when the Second Temple lost it's Holy Anointing when the Veil was Torn till when the future Temple will be consecrated.  I brought that up in some other posts too.

I feel ashamed of that argument now, because it implies what the Veil being Torn achieved is gonna be undone.  I won't remove that argument from that post because it's intent was to refute Chris White which it still does  At any-rate when studying the possible dual fulfillment I realized it didn't revolve around The Temple as much as I thought.  In fact it's barely mentioned at all.

More on my 2018-2025 Theory

I don't want this theory to ever become like the Blood Moon or Smeitah fads we see now.  I want awareness of my research to increase, but I don't want Christians radio shows getting people all riled up and frightened over it.  We who are in Christ have nothing to fear, because we cannot die.  And Satan can't touch us unless God allows him to.

I'm not dogmatic on this.  And I'm not playing games with it, I have very specific things I expect to see happen by Pentacost (Karaite reckoning) of 2018 if this is true or I will fully admit to being wrong and that Suleiman's decree has no Biblical relevance.

I'm never gonna try to make money off this either, as much as I want to become more financially independent, the Spirit is leading me to make everything I know about this available to the Public for Free.

First of all, before we even reach the time in question The Temple needs to be rebuilt.  Now modern technology could allow them to build a Temple (or it could be just a Tabernacle) pretty quickly.  And while I'm certain of where Solomon and Herod's Temples were, I'm not so sure the next Temple will be built on the exact right spot.  And Revelation 11 is the only reason I'm certain it has to be in Jerusalem, not somewhere else like Shiloh where I believe Ezekiel's Temple will be.

Even if The Temple is built by then, there are still things (at least 3, maybe 4) I expect to happen in Nisan of 2018, maybe the idea of some happening in Iyar, on Second Passover could be possible, but that's it, once Spring of 2018 is over my time for being vindicated is past.

This theory being wrong will not throw out most of how I interpret Bible Prophecy, the only significant change it would make I'll discus latter, but how I view the events of Revelation playing out over 7 years, and how I view the first fulfillment of the 70 Weeks, remain in tact.

If some of what I'll discus below happens but not all then maybe I could say I'm part right and just need to rethink some things.  In fact being part right on what would happen in 2018 would probably change my overall view of Bible Prophecy more then being completely wrong on this time frame would.

Properly speaking the 70th Week would begin on the Rosh Codesh of Nisan (Karaite reckoning) of 2018.  But the events that will single we're now in it will happen latter, but will happen probably in Nisan, and by Pentecost on the absolute latest.

I'll list what I expect to happen in basically the order I expect them to.  Reasons for why I view the Chronology of the 70th Week this way are explained here.

1. The Two Witnesses will begin their Ministry.  Possibly on Nisan 7.  Now this is tricky because I do feel counterfeit Witnesses are possible, so we need to show discernment if anyone makes such claims for themselves.  But I also have a feeling no counterfeit could do the exact same miracles they can perform.  The False Prophet can call fire down from heaven, but the Witnesses shoot fire from their mouths.

2. The Sixth Seal events will happen, probably on the 14th of Nisan, (or maybe Second Passover a month latter) in fact I think they'll correlate to the same time Jesus was on The Cross.  All of Revelation 6 I expect to happen when The Week starts, but the 6th seal has the most unmistakable identifying events.

Now on this I'm far less certain because of my shifting Antichrist views.  But it could be at about the same time as 2 or 3 that a person who is either a leader or ally of Israel will be killed and heralded by the Jews and maybe also Christians as Messiah Ben-Joseph.  This individual would be the White Horseman, and possibly his killer the Red Horseman who might be a Mahdi claimant. It may be that when he's resurrected 2.5-3.5 years latter he'll turn out to be the First Beast, the Eight King, the Little Horn.

3. Jerusalem will be invaded by an enemy, maybe a Muslim army, the Walls Suleiman had rebuilt will be breached and maybe even brought down completely in a manner that parallels the Walls of Jericho (perhaps even on the same day).  And from that point all of Jerusalem but the Temple itself, including everyplace settled by Jews now, will be under Gentile Control, hence trodden under the foot of the Gentiles for 42 months.

4. On Pentecost of 2018 would be when Revelation 7 is fulfilled, and I expect it's fulfillment to be like a massive global repeat of Acts 2.

If none of that happens I'll drop this issue, look for other possible dates but fully admit that my logic for this model was wrong, there is no other model I can build based on the entire 70 Weeks prophecy having a second fulfillment.

Here is the big thing.  They way I've redefined how I look at the 70 Weeks, and reject much Dispensationalist logic I used to buy into.  I will then if this theory is wrong reject the idea of the 70th Week being End Times relevant at all.

Now I can and have already proven that Revelation implies a 7 year time period, appealing to Daniel isn't needed.  Revelation 11 describes 3.5 years that must end before the 7th Trumpet sounds, while 12-13 describes 3.5 years that can't begin till after the 7th Trumpet sounds.  The 7th Trumpet I'm convinced is The Rapture Trumpet.

Seven Year time periods are a theme throughout Scripture, I don't need Daniel to prove that point.

And I'll still unlike most who view the 70th Week as fulfilled in the first advent reject the whole Crucifixion being the halfway point idea.  He was Crucified when the 69th Week ended and the 70th Began.  I explain somewhat a 30-37 AD 70th Week model here.  Jesus ministry was about 1 year not three.

A lot of this puts me on par with some of Rob Skiba's recent views.  His point about why Jacob's Trouble should be 20 years is interesting.  But he's assuming those 20 years can't have started yet, or at most started 3 years ago.

My current theory has the 7 years ending in 2025, 20 years before that is 2005, when Israel was forced to pull out of Gaza, evicting many Jews from their homes, and turning Gaza into a launching pad for terrorist attacks on Israel.  This was really Israel's first set back since they got their Nation in 1948.  Now that didn't happen in Nisan but still.

Now I am critical of how Israel has dealt with the Gaza situation recently, I do consider Israel's government as corrupt as any other.  But it's not the Israeli government who suffered, it's the Israeli people.  Just as the Cuban Embargo hurts the Cuban people, not it's Government.

Or if we view the 20 years of affliction as ending with The Rapture which I put at the midway point, which in this model is Yom Teruah in 2021.  That's about 20 years from 9/11.

Rob still makes the mistake of viewing the "Great Tribulation" as only the last half of the 7 years.  As I've argued firmly the Great Tribulation is all Church Age persecution.  If it's a time period at all then it began when Stephen was stoned and will end at The Rapture.  The "After the Tribulation" reference in Matthew 24 Post-Tribbers obsess over only proves that the Church's Tribulation by definition ends at the Rapture, no matter when The Rapture happens.  God's Wrath is still after and that and spans 42 months as a face value reading of Revelation proves.

The Woman of Revelation 12 who is national Israel still has tribulation however hiding in the Wilderness.  I agree with Rob that the Church is grafted into Israel in a sens,e but we're still distinct and National/Biological Israel still matter, the Woman of Revelation 12 is a mother not a bride, she can't be the Church.

Some Preterists have argued Stephen was stoned 1290 days after The Crucifixion (Tishri of 33 AD).  They made that argument equating that to the first half of the 70th Week, not the last, but still it's interesting, though different from the date for Stephen's stoning I speculated on originally as being around Hanukkah of 36/37 AD.

I'm not the biggest fan of allegorizeing numbers, especially the Day=Year method of Historicists.  But when the reference is an allegory to being with, like connecting Jacob's 20 year Affliction to the Eschatological Time of Jacob's Trouble, then to some extent why not.  Maybe 20 years can become 20 Centuries, Two Thousand years from the Stoning of Stephen till The Rapture.  That could certainly fit the 2030-2037 model I'd speculated on long ago. For this 2018-2025 model it'd work to say about 2000 years but not exactly.

If this theory is proven wrong, and I may consider it most likely wrong before the Nisan in question even starts if Temple progress isn't made.  I may consider a theory that while there is certainly a 7 year period in Revelation, it may not cover everything in Revelation 6-19 but rather only 11-19.  And maybe the proceeding 13 years could be where the Seals and first 6 Trumpets happen.  But I'd have to put a lot of thought into that.

Or maybe we should consider that a 20 year Time of Jacob's trouble refers not to before the Millennium but after it.  That it begins with Satan's getting let out of the Abyss.

The biggest inconvenience abandoning an Eschatological 70th Week would have for me is that I'd have to change the name of this Blog (Which was MidSeventitWeekRapture when I first made this Blog post).  The issue there is I've linked to this Blog in so many places, as references in many blog posts on this and my other blogs.  That I could never find and change all of them.  I'll have to check with Blooger on if it's possible to change the name but keep the old URLs in tact.

I may change the name even before abandoning this view, just for other reasons.  The new name for my Rapture model (which is distinct from traditional Mid-Trib) would be The Midway Point Rapture.
I may abandon having my rapture model as the name of the Blog at all, since it's a constant pain when I link to it in certain Facebook groups and people just respond to my Rapture model and not the subject of the actual post.

Update:

The ONLY think that could allow me to adjust this theory to a different timeline is if the Date for Suileman's decree is wrong.  And if I become convinced it is I will hope to do so and renounce this 2018-2025 timeline well before it become nigh.

The January 14 1546 Earthquake provides the only reason suspect something amiss there.  It is an odd coincidence that it seems Construction projects had started in Jerusalem less then 15 years before this Earthquake demanded further construction.

And it would be interesting if one cold re-date the Decree of Suileman to a year a couple months after the Earthquake, to the Nisan of 1547 AD, then that could cause line up with the 2030-2037 Model I'd already argued for awhile ago for completely unrelated reasons.  And it would mean Suleiman's decree was exactly 2000 years after Artaxerxes.

But in order for any of that to work one would have to argue against the reasons the rebuilding of the Walls is dated to 1535-1538.  And if that is solid it could be the usual date for the Earthquake that is wrong.

Another Update: I've for now abandoned this theory as explained here.

Which wrong view on The Rapture is the most dangerous?

The popular answer is the Pre-Trib view, the one thing all non Pre-Tribbers seem to agree on.

I really don't understand how the people who are now not believers or believers who are uninterested in Prophecy talk about being raised on the Pre-Tirb Rapture and being constantly terrified by it.  They clearly did not truly understand what The Rapture is if they found it frightening.

But what I'm going to discus here is how most of my fellow non Pre-Trib Futurists seem to think, simply by virtue of it being currently the mainstream view, that Pre-Trib is the most dangerous view.  That once we're clearly in the 70th Week and no Rapture happens countless formally faithful Pre-Tribbers will lose their faith and fall away.

Post-Tribbers particularly then see the dangers of Pre-Trib as innate in any more obscure view that has the Rapture as distinct from Revelation 19, even though I am adamant Christians will face Great Tribulation.  They are unwilling to listen to anything I have to say on Prophecy so long as I'm not Post-Trib like them.

I don't think so low of Pre-Tribbers, or anyone else who disagrees with me.  But especially Pre-Tribbers because I've grown a lot in the Spirit listening to other issues talked about by Pre-Tirbbers like Chuck Missler.  Pre-Tribbers are often the most likely to agree with me on Eternal Security, it seems the Pre-Wrath camp has a lot of Calvinism in it.

I've listened to a lot of Pre-Tribbers, many do believe American Christians will face persecution first.  I'm confident they will simply get over it and rework their understanding once Pre-Trib is proven wrong.

I don't think there is any risk of truly Saved people being "deceived" by the II Thessalonians 2 event.  I certainly don't think it's possible for a saved person to take the Mark, if you think that 100% of people who take The Mark are damned, but also believe in Eternal Security, then you have to believe no Saved person could take the Mark.  I think the Mark is instituted after The Rapture has just happened, and the awakening Israelites are fleeing to the wilderness.  So no one already saved will be presented with that dilemma.

Rob Skiba likes to say that the warning to Believers to not be deceived clearly means it's possible for us to be deceived.  That is true but it's not about the II Thessalonians 2 event, that event isn't a deception at all, that's when the Deception ends and the enemy just comes right out and says what he means, he will not claim to be Jesus or The God of The Bible he will claim to be better then The God of The Bible.

Before that, during the first half of the Week it might, MIGHT, be possible for Believers to wind up being tricked into helping/supporting the Man of Sin.

Pre-Trib will be proven wrong pretty much as soon as the 70th Week starts.  I believe The Temple will be standing before we enter it, and all of the first Six Seals will be opened before the Nisan that starts it is over.

So I'm more concerned that the default position among people is that IF Pre-Trib is wrong Post-Trib must be the only other option.  Then after that is the trendy Pre-Wrath view.  And also that movie from the Pastor I do not like to name that is presenting a model technically Mid-Trib in form but is really a hybridization of Post-Trib and Pre-Wrath ideas.  Pre-Wrathers especially love to brag about Mid-Trib being a "defunct view".  Well they should remember that it'd suit Satan well if the correct view is the least popular.

All three of those models place the Seventh Trumpet at the end of the 70th Week rather then The Mid-Way point as a plain reading of Revelation clearly shows.  Post-Trib sometimes sees the sixth or seventh Seal as the same event but not always.  Pre-Wrath places the Sixth Seal some indeterminate amount of time after the Mid-Way point.

Meanwhile there are also people arguing that there is no 70th Week, that the entire period is only 3.5 years and so every 3.5 year period referenced is the same.  And most who do believe in a 70th Week have this wrong idea that those years will begin and end on Yom Teruah, when Yom Teruah should Biblically mark the midway point.

I've talked to Pre-Wrathers who think it's possible we're already in the 70th Week now and aren't aware of it.  I firmly believe it can't start till The Temple (it could be just a Tabernacle) is standing in Jerusalem.  Pre-Wrathers also tend to think the Persecution only starts at the Abomination of Desolation.

Basically what I'm saying is I fear once Pre-Trib is firmly debunked people may be deceived into thinking we're already at or past the Mid-Way point when the 70th Week has really only just started.

The only issue there is how can people be tricked into thinking The Abomination of Desolation has happened already when it really hasn't?  Paul certainly makes what it is unmistakable in II Thessalonians 2.  But lots of people are already trying to alegorize or twist that.

I think there will be plenty of Christians who won't fall for this deception, even if their current views make them vulnerable to aspects of it.  But we need to be aware of how that deception could work.

1. Thanks to how the 1290 days reference from Daniel 12 is commonly misunderstood, most people assume the Sacrifice and Oblation is made to cease at the same time as the Abomination of Desolation when it's really 1290 days before it.

2. The Anti-Semites of the world may well think the Temple being rebuilt itself is the Abomination of Desolation.  That's what some of Texe Marrs logic seems to imply.  And since many other Dispensationalist and Zionsit Christians think it's possible The Temple won't be rebuilt till very soon before it happens, they are not prepared to refute that argument timing wise.

3. Then there are the people who allegorize what The Temple means in II Thessalonians to being The Church.  Don't assume that view will lose credibility once a Third Temple is standing, many of them are clarifying they do think The Jews might get their Temple rebuilt, but that Christians should not be tricked into thinking that is prophetically relevant.

4. Rob Skiba has gone and wrongly defined what The Abomination of Desolation of Antiochus Epiphanes was, saying it refers to when he offered the Pig on the Altar (a legend that is apocryphal to begin with) not the Idol.  So imagine if it's Nisan, perhaps on Passover, someone invades Jerusalem, enters the Temple and kills a Pig on the Brazen Altar.  Rob Skiba is set up to be deceived, especially if that same Decoy Antichrist claims to be Nimrod.

5. I've also seen someone argue (with the intent of supporting a Prestist view however) that when Jesus said "The Holy Place" really means "A Holy Place" and that the Abomination need not happen in specifically the Inner Sanctuary at all.  This is especially tempting to fall for once you notice Antiochus Epiphanes lesser Abomination Idol wasn't in the Holy Place but on the Brazen Altar.  That's probably why Rob Skiba got confused.  But II Thessalonians 2:4 says he sits in The Temple, the only sitting Place in The Temple was the Ark itself which lid was the mercy Seat, this Temple I don't think will have the real Ark.

6. I also think some might get confused by a person deifying himself or giving Messianic status to himself and forget that The Beast will also speak AGAINST the True God.

All of these could be relevant, since Satan will probably try to have multiple deceptions going on with multiple Decoy Antichrists.  Maybe even relevant in ways that sometimes overlap.

2018-2025 Seventieth Week Theory

The basic reasoning behind my developing this theory I have laid out in my Suleiman The Magnificent post.  Of course one needs to understand my reasons for disagreeing with those who say Date-Setting is inherently wrong.  At any-rate I'm not saying I know, it's a theory.

I'm not making any money off talking about this theory, I'm not writing a book about it, everything I have to say on it is up for free on this Blog.  And I do not have any kind of advertising arrangement that allows me to make money off of the clicks I get.

The gist is, it seems that the entire 70 weeks could have a double fulfillment not just the first.  And Sulieman's decree was issued possibly in Nisan of 1535.  490 years latter is 2025 putting the last week beginning in 2018.  Potential support for this comes from it being more then 70 but less then 80 years since 1948.

This puts the Mid-Way point and sounding of the Seventh Trumpet on Yom Teruah/First of Tishri 2021 AD.  Because the 70 Weeks all begin and end in Nisan.  Now we can't know for certain when Yom Teruah falls in 2021 because of what I explained about the Biblical Reckoning not always agreeing with The Rabbis.  At any-rate though, the Rabbis currently expect Yom Teruah of 2021 to fall on September 7th or 8th, the moon will be under Virgo's Feet on September 10th.

(Update: On further Stelarium study, I think 2021 is likely one of those years the Rabbinic Calendar is a month off.  So I think Yom Teruah will be October 6th or 7th, the Moon will be under Virgo's feet on the 7th.)

I speculate on how the 70th Week could play out here.

I recently explained why I feel The Rapture of The Man-Child is The Rapture of The Church.  That view is not at all dependent on adding any Virgo related speculation for the signs, but I decided to use Stelarium and take a look.

When The Moon is under Virgo's Feet on September 14th 2021, Venus will be between The Moon and Spica.  And the time Venus will be visible will be less then an hour.

Now in the Man-Child study I felt Revelation 2:27 and it's Rod of Iron reference was important, well the very next verse Jesus also says "I will give him The Morning Star".  How linked are those?  Could Venus represent the Rod of Iron in some way?

I don't know if this model will happen, but I will be paying attention.  I have an important follow up here.

Some Calculations for the 70th Week of Daniel

Drawing on theories I laid out in the 1290 days post and Messiah The Prince post.

Jewish tradition says Elijah will return on Passover, that is part of the reason for the Elijah Cup.  I would never build doctrine on Rabbinic tradition, but that happens to correspond towith many reasons I have for believing the 70th Week begins in Nisan.

Ezekiel 45 makes the 7th of Nisan important for some reason.  Interpretations of the Chronology of Joshua often put the entry of the two spies into Jericho on the 7th of Nisan.  If that is the day the Witnesses begin their ministry, then the 25th or 26th of Elul could be the day they're martyred, depending on if we count them inclusively.  Placing their Resurrection on the Feast of Trumpets or the eve of it, and then the Seventh Trumpet probably that same day or the next.

If it does start on Passover, either the 14th of 15 of Nisan they begin their ministry on.  Which could be the same day the White Horseman is formally crowned.  Then their martyrdom could be the third of Tishri, which is the fast of the seventh month.

I also have a feeling The Image of Revelation 13 (which I don't view as linked to The Temple), could be set up on the 15th of Cheshvan.  1290 days before that could fall if they're counted inclusively on the 26nd of Nisan.  That day is considered by Jewish Tradition the day Joshua died.  If The Antichrist claims to be or is claimed to be Messiah Ben-Joseph, then Joshua  is one of the people he'll be claimed as a type of him.  And I now think it's possible his mortal wounding could be the same day the 1290 days begins.

That is assuming no Second Adar during the period, if there is a Second Adar, then that moves either the start of the 1290 days up to Iyar or the end of it down to Tabernacles.

If the Beast's resurrection (when I begin the 42 months he's allowed to continue) is in Tishri, 42 New Moons latter could put his demise probably in Adar.

If the 1260 days Israel is in the wilderness begins on the 25th or 26th of Elul it could end on the 17th of Adar.  The last of the days affiliated with Purim.  If it starts on the third of Tishrei then the 25th of Adar could be it's end.  Jeremiah 52:31 makes that date potentially significant, many interpret that as also being the day Nebuchadnezzar died.

If we start the 1335 days with The Rapture, and it happens on the First of Tishri.  Their end would be around the 10th of Sivan.  If that day happens to fall on a Sunday, then it would probably be the day that Biblically Pentecost is supposed to fall on.  Sounds like a pretty good day to start The Millennium.

My theory is that the 70th week formally begins on the 1st of Nisan, but the actual events that will make clear we've entered it will happen latter in that same Nisan.

Suleiman and the 70 Weeks of Daniel

I've argued on this Blog for why I believe the first 69 weeks of Daniel 9 were fulfilled from 454 BC-30 AD.  I decided later in response to those who are Futurists yet view the 70th Week as fulfilled, to investigate the possibility of the 70th week being fulfilled from 30-37 AD.  And then I came to the conclusion that the 70th Week is a Prophecy with a dual Fulfillment.

I eventually decided to contemplate in my mind the possibility of the first 69 weeks having a second fulfillment also.  This would require another decree to rebuild Jerusalem.  It need not seem identical to the one by Artaxerxes or any other Persian ruler.  It matters only that it fit what Daniel 9 says of it.  Interestingly Daniel 9's description of the Decree says nothing about Israelites returning to Jerusalem at this time, or anything about The Temple.  Only the City being restored and rebuilt with a specific emphasis on The Walls.

I decided to look at Wikipedia's Timeline of Jerusalem and saw that 1535-1538 AD Suleiman The Magnificent had Jerusalem rebuilt including The Walls which had been in ruin since at least 135 AD. Also The Dome of The Rock was renovated then.  These restored Walls are the Walls that stand to this day.  The story goes that he gave a decree to rebuild the Walls that was prompted by a divinely inspired dream he had.  Whatever prompted the Decree, we have archaeological evidence of it.

Building inscription commemorating the rebuilding of the walls of Jerusalem 

Jerusalem 

Ottoman period, 1535–1538 

Stone 

Israel Antiquities Authority 

Accession number: IAA 1942-265 

The Ottoman Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent ordered the construction of new buildings in Jerusalem and the renovation of existing ones. Among his most notable projects were the renovation of the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount and the rebuilding of the Jerusalem city walls. The walls, reminiscent of those surrounding Istanbul, are the ones that still surround Jerusalem’s Old City today. This building inscription commemorates their renewal.

“Has decreed the construction of the wall he who has protected the home of Islam with his might and main and wiped out the tyranny of idols with his power and strength, he whom alone God has enabled to enslave the necks of kings in countries (far and wide) and deservedly acquire the throne of the Caliphate, the Sultan son of the Sultan son of the Sultan son of the Sultan, Suleyman.”

Digital presentation of this object was made possible by: The Ridgefield Foundation, New York, in memory of Henry J. and Erna D. Leir

I've already addressed the usual argument against Date Setting.  

Problem is we don't know exactly when this "decree" was, it was in the range of 1535-1538 AD.  In my view in order for it to fit perfectly it needs to have been made in Nisan.  

I did some searching and found that others had noticed this possibility before me.  A lot of them however seem to incorporate mistakes about the 70 Weeks Prophecy I addressed in my earliest posts on it.

I saw on one website someone arguing that only this Decree could fit Daniel 9 and not any of the Persian ones.  They base it on seeing Daniel 9:25 as saying that the Wall must continually stand at least during the entirety of the 62 weeks.  The Walls built during Persian times were breached at least once before the earliest possible date one could give for the 62 weeks ending (106 BC and that requires a few assumptions I view as wrong, I as you know see them as ending in 30 AD), by Antiochus Epiphanes forces, Josephus Antiquities of The Jews Book 12 Chapter 5 does say he destroyed the walls.  Suleiman's Walls meanwhile have stood without interruption unto this very day.

The problem with that argument is that it removes the first Advent of Christ from the 70 Weeks.  Also Gabriel was clearly promising something in the near future, something at least some of Daniel's original readers would live to see.  What's said about the Walls standing has room for interpretation, Antiochus did not completely destroy them like the Romans did in 70 and 135 AD. 

It is a common feature of Double Fulfillment Prophecies that certain key details are not fulfilled in their truest sense till the second fulfillment, that's largely why we know it needs a second.  In the case of the 70 weeks we tend to see the 70th alone as what needs something yet future to be fulfilled.

But given what I argued already about my view of the 70th Week, the implication that perhaps the Walls could be torn down or breached when the Eschatological 70th Week starts is pretty provocative.  Since I am expecting the Nisan that starts The Week to include an Islamic conquest of Jerusalem in response to The Temple being rebuilt.  And a Decoy Antichrist will kill the true Antichrist who will be heralded as Messiah Ben-Joseph.

Most people believe if Jerusalem is conquered by a foreign enemy during the 70th Week it's at the midway point, at the same time as the Abomination of Desolation.  And I have other reasons for thinking an End Times deception could involve making people think the beginning of The Week was it's middle.  It was I think in Nisan that the Walls of Jericho fell.

If this theory is true, I think some discovery will be made before the 70th Week begins that will clarify exactly when Suleiman made his decree.  And if it was in Nisan on either the Rabbinic Hebrew, Kariete Hebrew or Samaritan Hebrew calendar, then I will start feeling this hypothesis is very possible.

The margin of error currently gives us Nisan of 2018-2021 for the start of the 70th week.  Tishri of 2021-2024 for the Midway Point, when I place The Rapture/Second Coming, and when we all place the Abomination of Desolation.  And Nisan of 2025-2028 for the end of the 70th Week.

People have independently of this seen reasons to look to that range for the end times.  Some of those I might get into in future posts.  I've offered two possible 70th Week theories on this blog before, neither of which are compatible with this.  I'm trying to consider many possibilities.

Update: It seems the 1535-1538 range is really the time the walls were under construction, though other construction in Jerusalem continued for awhile after, 1541 for the Golden Gate, and then additional renovations after the 1546 Earthquake.  Which means the Decree could have likely been Nisan 1535 placing the 70th week as 2018-2025, with the Seventh Trumpet sounding on the First of Tishri in 2021, marking the Mid-Way Point.

I've come to view the 7 and 62 weeks distinction as that the 7 weeks is how long the construction went on.  I know of no documentation that anything was exactly finished in 1584, but it's possible, that's 38 years after the earthquake.

Also a correction on something I said above, it was April 1st 1969 not 68 reconstruction in the Old City was allowed.  I've seen one website suggest that the second fulfillment perhaps switched the order of the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks.  I think that's torturing the text a bit, but that it is a full jubilee from then to Nisan 2018 is interesting.

Update May 2017:   If you want to learn more about Suleiman himself in an easy and fun way, I recommend watching Extra History: Suleiman The Magnificent.

Possibility of 2050-2057

I'm not dogmatic on any date setting.  But I have come to an interesting hypothetical theory.

If you take Ussher's Creation date (4004 B.C.) and correct him only on the 60 year dispute on when in Terah's life Abraham was born, you get 3944 B.C. Which then has 2057 mark the begging of the 6001st year of History, (remember that there is no year 0).

Meanwhile J.R. Church had his Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms theory, centered on the fact that Psalm 48 could be viewed as a Prophecy of Israel's restoration in 1948 (though it's ultimately about New Jerusalem). But he stopped viewing them as correlating to years with Book 5 (Psalm 107 and up) because he didn't want the end to be that far off.  With 150 Psalms, that puts the Period the Psalms document as ending in 2050.

There are reasons I've come to theorize that the Seventh Trumpet (which I view as the midway point of the 70th week) could correlate to a Solar Eclipse on the eve of the Feast of Trumpets (First of Tishri).  There will be one on September 12 of 53 AD.  This is similar to the August 2 2027 eclipse a certain website online sees as significant.  But that Eclipse is two months too early to be the Feast of Trumpets.  That site also uses historist day=year theory nonsense about Issac Newton's 2060 theory.

It will only be partial over Israel, but be Total over North Africa and Arabia. I think it only being Partial is fine, it's pretty rare any of the Solar Eclipses at the right time of year are visible in Israel at all, and the next century has none that are Total over Israel.  Jesus' description in Matthew 24 has the Sun and Moon darkened but still visible.  This one fits the best of any within the life time of people alive now.

I'm not a supporter of the Blood Moon theory as I've explained on this blog before.  If the Moon turning to Blood in Joel 2 and Revelation 6 has any natural explanation at all, volcanic eruptions can work just as easily.  And there is certainly no Tetrad needed, the Blood Moon references in Scripture are all a singular event.

However I have argued for unrelated reasons that I feel the Sixth Seal events could happen on the Passover of the Nisan that begins the 70th Week.  And at any rate I do think the moon turning to Blood would have the best dramatic effect if it's a Full Moon.

There will be a Total Lunar Eclipse visible in Israel on May 6 of 2050.  On the Calendar the Jews currently use that's a month too late to be Passover.  But some people think the Jewish calendar is in some years off by a month, and indeed the Samaritans and Karaites both do their leap months differently.  But if it is accurate then that May 6th would be Second Passover, which I have before argued for seeing as possibly eschatologicaly significant.  This Blood Moon is also the first of a Tetrad.

The Sixth Seal theory I've worked out before could easily be adjusted to that, the Horsemen would still ride in Nisan.

Back to the 2053 Solar Eclipse.  It will be at that time that Jupiter is leaving Virgo after having been in her for over 9 months.  Venus, Mercury, Uranus and Mars will all be in Virgo at that time too.  Which can be interesting in light of Revelation 12 theories.  The Moon will indeed be under the feet of Virgo just a few days later.

The top objection to this other then usual anti Date Setting sentiment would be the view that the end must come within a generation of 1948.  People are already beginning to more commonly live to 120, so some people born before 1948 could still be alive in 2057.

Edit Update : I was honestly unaware when I first came up with this of Frank J. Tipler and his reasons for predicting the second coming before 2057. (of course my model as a form of "Mid-Trib" places the Second Coming proper in 2053).

Messiah The Prince of Daniel 9

The 70 weeks Prophecy four times refers to an awaited personage at the the end of the 69 weeks and/or the 70th week.

Messiah The Prince in verse 25
The Messiah in verse 26
The Prince that shall come in verse 26
He in verse 27

The standard view among Christians who are Premillennial Futurists (and even some Preterists) has been that the first two are Jesus Christ and the last two the person we commonly call The Antichrist.  Chris White however promotes a theory he didn't invent himself that makes each of the four something different. predicating it largely on how unclear it is which of the earlier personages the He in verse 27 appears to be.

However most people reading this Prophecy without a Christian starting point, as well as many Christians who are Preterist, see the clear grammatical logic as saying all four are the same person.

When verse 25 says to await the coming of a Messiah The Prince and then verse 26 says The Prince that shall come logic dictates that it's the same Prince.  And if there aren't two or three different people refereed to earlier, figuring out who He is, isn't that complicated.

It's also pretty much unique to Christians to see a Villain in any of the four references.  Because you see the "he" after "Abominations" in the KJV of verse 27 isn't in the Hebrew.  So the first He is not the one who sets it/them up.  That can agree with seeing him as The Antichrist however, because in Revelation while The Image is of The Beast, it's the second beast (False Prophet) that sets it up and enforces it's worship.

I'm going to suggest that the traditional Christian view, and this "only one person is mentioned" view can both be right, via the principle of Double Fulfillment.  I've already documented that there are Jews without a Christian bias who see the 70th Week as yet future and separated from the first 69.  But I've also argued that seeing the 70th Week as being entirely fulfilled from 30-37 AD is more plausible then my fellow Futurists realize.  Recently I've argued that some of our assumptions about how the End Times 70th Week will play out are wrong.

The suggestion that there is a Prophecy which is fulfilled by both Jesus and the Antichrist is certainly controversial.  But Solomon was a type of both Jesus and The Antichrist.  When doing well he was the near fulfillment of the Messianic Kingdom.  But when he backslid, the number 666 was directly linked to him.  Samson likewise has been argued to prefigure both, especially by those who see Genesis 49 as implying a Danite Antichrist.  Saul could also be viewed this way.

The word "Antichrist" means, false Christ, or counterfeit Christ, or opposing Christ, or replacement Christ, or enemy of Christ. or antithesis of Christ, or opposite of Christ.  I've seen several different meanings argued for it, but they all involve Christ, which is Greek for Messiah.  Many Old Testament types of The Antichrist were anointed by true Prophets of God (Jeroboam and Jehu, also Solomon and Saul I already mentioned).  Jesus refereed to Judas as someone He Choose, and Judas could perform divine Miracles by Jesus authority.  Yet he was a Devil and the Son of Perdition.

And at any-rate, he'll need to be able to make Messianic Prophecies apply to him if he'll be a credible Messiah Ben-Joseph.

Given what I argued on those posts I linked to.  This would mean his Mortal Wounding is at the beginning of the 70th week.  We tend to assume that his Resurrection happens soon after his death.  But I notice that there is no reference in Revelation to The Beast being active during the first half of The Week.  The first undisputed appearance of The Beast is when he kills The Two Witnesses, and hes' already ascended out of The Pit by then.

I do agree that The First Horseman is likely the man who'll become The Beast.  But I've become inclined to view all of the first 6 Seals as being right at the start of The Week, due to my Sixth Seal view and other things.

Maybe the opening of the First Seal has him doing his own Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem, after winning many wars.  Doing it maybe even on the same day Jesus did his, the 10th of Nisan.  Then he is Crowned Messiah Ben-Joseph.  But the next thing to happen is the Red Horseman.  Who I argued in that same Four Horseman study could be The Antichrist's killer because of his Sword.  And many Christians and Jews will assume that that killer is The Antichrist/Armillus.

My main False Prophet theory wouldn't have it be possible for him to have The False Prophet with him already at this point.  But I could be wrong, he could also have a Prophet with him all through those Wars.  They could together claim to Christians to be The Two Witnesses, and to Jews that they're Messiah Ben-Joseph and/or Elijah and/or The Prophet like unto Moses and/or the Priest of the order of Melchizedek and/or Enoch.  And then people might selectively use the day=year theory to say that The Witnesses being dead three and a half days really means three and a half years.

This deception could fit what Perry Stone (who I respect and consider truly Saved) is predicting.  He's saying that The Temple will be under construction during the first half of the week, after Elijah/Witnesses conquers the Muslims.  Then The Mahdi will conquer Jerusalem and kill them and stop the sacrifice sin The Temple right after it was just finished being constructed.

The 1290 days are the first half of The Week

Daniel 12:11

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

The common assumption among my fellow Futurists is that both the Sacrifice being taken away and the Abomination of Desolation being set up occurs at the beginning of this time period.  Pre-Wrath needs this to some degree for their view on the Bowls.  And it's been a part of many of my past studies.

The problem is it doesn't tell us what marks the end of this period.  It's a useless Prophecy to say was proven true if we don't know what is supposed to happen at the end of this time we're keeping count of.

The Hebrew Grammar, and also the English when you read it carefully, is actually intending to tell us that there would be 1290 days from the Sacrifice being taken away until the Abomination of Desolation set up.  It's the very problematic Septuagint rendering adding the word "when" that is the source of this common error.

We keep assuming that clearly those events must be at the same time.  But neither Jesus in any account of The Olivite Discourse, or Paul in II Thessalonians 2, or Revelation in Chapter 13 tell us a taking away of Sacrifice occurs when The beast deifies himself and the False Prophet sets up his Image.  Revelation 11 clearly has The Temple standing during the first half, but I must now admit it says nothing to verify Sacrifices being carried out.  Jerusalem is trodden under foot of The Gentiles.

In the case of the near fulfillment linked to Antiochus Epiphanes they did happen at the same time, roughly.  But double fulfillment prophecies often have differences in how they're fulfilled.  And at any-rate Antiochus's had a different time period linked to it in Daniel 8, 23000 Mornings and Evenings (1150 days, or 37 months on a lunar calendar).

Many Preterists view the 1290 days this way.  But their interpretation of what sacrifice is taken away is clearly not the intent of Daniel.  They think it refers to sacrifices being made in honor of Caesar being stopped at the start of the First Jewish-Roman War.

Chris White even argues in his Mystery Babylon Theory, that I have objected to for many reasons, but now I'm rethinking some of those.  That the Temple services will be carried out (in worship of The Beast) during the second half after the Abomination is set up.

The Seventieth Week Prophecy says in Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

First note, the "he" after Abomainitons isn't in the Hebrew text.  More importantly for this however, the word translated "midst" is also translated elsewhere "half".  So it could be valid to render it as "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".  And that the Abominations are defining the second half.

A note I want to add.  When this happens, who it appears to the world, (and to believers who don't put enough thought into it) is responsible for the Sacrifice ceasing may not be who God actually blames.  I say this because of my belief that there could be a Decoy Antichrist(s).  We're likely to think of it as the person who by force says "I won't let this go on anymore", but that may not be who God considers ultimately responsible.

Going back to Daniel 12, this allows us to make more sense out of the 1335 days.  That is what is meant to equate to the second half.  Rather then usually seeing it as some kind of extension to the 1290 days.  This could add to/adjust what I argued here.

"Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." I'm now thinking could be further proof of a Mid-Seventieth Week Rapture.  Because that event is what we're supposed to be waiting for.  So maybe The Rapture is about where the 1335 days begins.

We do return to what the old 1290 days assumption left us with.  Some implied time after when the 1260 days Israel hides and 42 months The Beast rules the World ends.  Once again I think that could include Israel as a nation celebrating a Second Passover.  And then The Millennium is formally instituted.

The most telling thing this conclusion of mine tells me is that it backs up my reasons for thinking that part of the End Time deception will be trying to pass off the First Half of the Week as the second. With the way Pre-Wrathers and Post-Tirbbers have the 6th Seal and Trumpets and the Two Witnesses all in the second half while the more plain reading of Revelation clearly says they're the first half.

So if the Sacrifice and Oblation is made to cease when it starts.  And they pass something else off as the Abomination, like an allegorical interpretation of it.  Or just the Decoy Antichrist being really arrogant while in The Temple but falling short of what Paul describes.  Then that can make that deception fit together.

Revelation 11 is also dealing with the time periods of the first half of the week.

The 42 months the outer court is trodden under and the 1260 day ministry of the Two Witnesses are basically the same time period I believe, but possibly with slight variation.  For one thing the 42 months I don't think needs to be calculated to the day, in fact I think based on the Hebrew concept it's drawing on that it could only mean 42 New Moons transpire during the period, and thus could hypothetically be barely more then 41 months.  During a period of 1290 days there would be at least 43 New Moons and maybe even 44.

The 1290 days most likely begins rather then ends at the same time as the 42 months, since Jerusalem would have been trodden underfoot if the Sacrifices are stopped by force.  And the wording in Daniel 12 could allow the Sacrifices to be restored before the 1290 days are entirely over. And on the other hand there is no guarantee the Sacrifices would be restored right away when the gentile presence is removed since Revelation 11 doesn't address sacrifices at all.

It could be the Beast after his resurrection liberates Jerusalem and waits a month or so before actually performing his Abomination.  I used to be set on seeing the AoD as the same day as his resurrection, but now I'm not so sure.  Or it could be the actual Image of Revelation 13 is set up sometime after he does what II Thessalonians 2 describes.   Or a combination of both.

The Ministry of the Witnesses ends with their Martrydom, which I still feel instinctively is likely to be the same day as the II Thessalonians 2 Abomination event.  It must be after his resurrection since he's ascended form the Pit.  Matthew 24:15 I believe is not about the actual Image of Revelation 13 but the II Thessalonians 2 event. Three and a half days latter they are Resurrected and Raptured and Jerusalem repents.

Some Calculations I have done on how things could work out.

Hippolytus of Rome (170–235), and Jewish sources on Gaps in Daniel

Hippolytus of Rome (170–235), was the only one of the Early Church Fathers to really write in depth on Eschatology.  He was indisputably Futurist and Premillennial .  But his understanding of the Return of Christ was also what we'd call today Post-Trib.  I'm sorry Pre-Tirbbers but your desire to make it sound like the Church Fathers were pre-trib by taking their quotes on "imminence" out of context simply fails when reading everything they wrote.

I'm not bothered by the Church Fathers being wrong on the Rapture.  Daniel 12 foretells that Knowledge of God's word would increase.  And the Post-Trib error is the unavoidable consequence of replacement theology.  Jesus returning more then once simply makes no sense if you don't understand there are two Covenant peoples he's returning for.  This replacement theology was born out of the Church's reactions to the persecutions they faced from Jews during the Bar-Kochba revolt.  These latter Christians weren't able to follow the example of Stephen.  I said this before in my post on Ephream the Syrian.

Hippolytus like most early Christians believed the Witnesses were Enoch and Elijah.  He believed Rome had to fall first and the 10 Horns were Kingdoms that would arise out of Rome's fall. Those are things I feel he was right on.

He also believed The Antichrist would be a Jew of The Tribe of Dan, and would claim to be The Jewish Messiah.  He may be right on that too.

But he was also a date setter.  He had an understanding of Chronology (partly based on the problematic Septuagint) that told him Jesus was crucified in the 5500th from Creation.  And so he believed the Sabbath Millennium would start in 530 AD.  That he didn't date set within his own life time shows a lack of personal bias.  His date was wrong of course, but admittedly during the time period leading up to that date, the Western Empire had just fallen, and there were Messianic Samaritan and Jewish Revolts in the Holy Land.  If there were people at the time familiar with him, it might have seemed like his predictions were coming to pass.

Among the ideas that critics of Dispensationalism like to accuse of being made up by Darby and others in the 1800s, is the idea of gaps in certain Old Testament Prophecies, particularly Daniel 9 and 11.  And I've seen them abuse quotes from Hippolytus to try and back that up.

However reading his commentary on Daniel shows, that he viewed the first 69 Weeks as ending with Jesus, but that the 70th was yet Future.  And likewise in Daniel 11, he viewed the first 35 verses as being The Hellenistic age, but that verses 36-45 were about a yet future Antichrist.

39. Thus, then, does the prophet set forth these things concerning the Antichrist, who shall be shameless, a war-maker, and despot, who, exalting himself above all kings and above every god, shall build the city of Jerusalem, and restore the sanctuary. Him the impious will worship as God, and will bend to him the knee, thinking him to be the Christ. He shall cut off the two witnesses and forerunners of Christ, who proclaim His glorious kingdom from heaven, as it is said: "And I will give (power) unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." As also it was announced to Daniel: "And one week shall confirm a covenant with many; and in the midst of the week it shall be that the sacrifice and oblation shall be removed"--that the one week might be shown to be divided into two. The two witnesses, then, shall preach three years and a half; and Antichrist shall make war upon the saints during the test of the week, and desolate the world, that what is written may be fulfilled: "And they shall make the abomination of desolation for a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

The source I copied that from has apparent typos I chose not to correct.  I assume "Test of the week" should mean "rest of the week".

What might surprise one even more is to discover some Rabbinic Jewish sources who agree the 70th Week could be yet future, as well as the last part of Daniel 11.

Britam is a Rabbinic Jewish website that supports it's own unique form of British Israelism, but without any of Christian aspects of the idea.  I don't desire to endorse British Israelism, but the site's commentaries on Daniel 9 and 11 are interesting.

[Daniel 9:27] AND HE SHALL CONFIRM THE COVENANT WITH MANY FOR ONE WEEK: AND IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK HE SHALL CAUSE THE SACRIFICE AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE, AND FOR THE OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS HE SHALL MAKE IT DESOLATE, EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION, AND THAT DETERMINED SHALL  BE POURED UPON THE DESOLATE.

These verses are also applicable to future events leading up to the Messianic Age.

And

Until now the account has quite faithfully followed the historical developments that did indeed occur exactly as described. From here on Scripture seems to depart somewhat and enter another future realm.
In effect we may say that this present chapter of Daniel although apparently dedicated to the Maccabee Period and what preceded it in effect is proto-typical. It is referring to the end times and using historical events as a pattern for future end-time prophecy.

They don't see Jesus in the first 69 weeks of course, but that's not the point I'm seeking to prove here.

Update September 2015: I no longer agree with the message of this post.  A I have explained here.

Playing Devil's Advocate on the Seventieth Week

This is a follow up to my earlier post proving 7 years from Revelation.

In terms of those Futurists who view the 70th Week as past, I decided I want to give a fair open minded look at their view.  Problem is, they don't even view the first 69 Weeks the same as I do (from the ones I've encountered).  Now I am open minded to being proven wrong on that too, if you feel you have a sufficient fatal flaw to my argument feel free to leave one as a comment.

But for now, if you want to convince me of a Preterist view of the 70th Week, it's gonna need to be a view that has the 70th Week being from Nisan of 30 AD to Nisan of 37 AD.  And the Crucifixion in that Nisan of 30 AD.  Moving The Cross to the middle of The Week simply doesn't work.

I decided to look for myself at this Seven year period, to see if playing Devil's Advocate I could make that argument myself.  But also with the thought as someone who believers in types and near fulfillments, that the 7 years following the end of the 69th Week could be a minor prefiguring of the true final 70th Week.

My view on The Sixth Seal actually lends itself to that.  Based on the Sixth Seal parallels to Joel 2:28-32 and how Peter uses that same Joel passage in Acts 2.  I argue that the Earthquake and Darkening of The Sun that happened as Jesus was on The Cross was a prefiguring of the Terrestrial and Cosmic Signs of the Sixth Seal.  And with that I think the Sixth Seal will be opened on the 14th day of the Nisan that starts the 70th Week.  And that the Sealing of the 144,000 will be on the following Pentecost, it'll be another great outpouring of The Holy Spirit.

So in a sense it may be as if the initiation of the 70th Week is also God sort of resetting his Clock back to 30 AD.  But I would not build doctrine or date setting on anything I'm gonna suggest below.  This is just fun conjecture.

With a connection made to the beginning, I decided to look at the end.  It's not agreed universally which spring full moon correlated to Passover in 37 AD, it could've been March or April.  But the one in March was around the 21st-23rd and the Seventeenth fell on a Sunday again like it did in 30, this time it was March 25th.

The 16th of March that year was the day Tiberius died, awfully close.  And that Passover season close to Tiberius's death plays a key role in Josephus's account (Book 18 Chapter 4) of when Pilate was removed from his governorship.

Pilate is usually assumed to have been removed way back in the late summer or fall of 36.  But I can't help but feel reading Josephus like it was closer to when Tiberius actually died.  And others have as well, but the main such source I read does so arguing for a 37 AD Crucifixion, and then tying that into all kinds of other heresies.

It's not just Pilate and Tiberius.  It seems 36 and 37 AD saw the either deaths or removal from power of all the figures Luke 3:1-2 states were in power at that time.  Perhaps it prefigures how when the 70th Week begins, only one week is left for the current World Order.

But on the subject of Pilate's Removal.  The Josephus account includes a sort of False Messiah or False Prophet figure of the Samaritans who helped get them riled up, and who remains unnamed. 

"The man who excited them to it was one who thought lying a thing of little consequence, and who contrived every thing so that the multitude might be pleased; so he bid them to get together upon Mount Gerizzim, which is by them looked upon as the most holy of all mountains, and assured them, that when they were come thither, he would show them those sacred vessels which were laid under that place, because Moses put them there"

Acts 8:9-11 says of Simon Magus.  " But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.  And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries."

 The Samaritan chronicler Abul Fath mentions a sect headed by a R. Zadok which was tied to the heretic who claimed to be the “booth” or “booths” of the new Tabernacle. He speaks of “five brothers who from [the Samaritan holy mountain Gerizim] who were called [the Sons of Zadoq] and also another man called Zadoq the Elder from Bayt Far who deviated from “booths” and his companions, saying that Mount Gerizim is as holy as if the Samaritan temple were [still] standing upon it and that while one was obligated to do what was written [in the Law of Moses] he need not do what was not possible for him.” His community apparently “invoked him by the name mentioned [in the report of Booths] above, i.e. the Mediator, and agreed with [Booths] about abolishing … the rule of “Moses commanded for us a Law” [Deut 33:4]

I think, maybe these were the same individuals.  There are other reasons to view Acts 6-11 as being about 37 AD.  Wikipedia speculates that the martyrdom of Stephen must've been during the brief administration of Marcellus.  And Paul synchronizes the time of his Conversion to when Aretas controlled Damascus (2 Corinthians 11:32).  Which he didn't before Caligula became Emperor.

So that's the end of The Week, what about it's middle?  Tishri of 33 AD?

33 AD is a complicated year to study, web searches for it will have to shift through those referencing it thinking the Crucifixion was that year.  Nothing is known to be exactly dated to that year that resembles The Abomination of Desolation.  But the main thing that causes people to argue for the Crucifixion being that year, is itself interesting to look at.

That being a desire starting from some Early Church Fathers to identify an Eclipse and Earthquake mentioned by Thallus placed as occurring in Bythia and Asia Minor in 33 AD as the one that happen when Jesus was on the Cross.  He's quoted by Julius Africanus without much context.  Apologetic circles want to think Thallus himself was connecting this to Jesus, and Africanus accusing him of trying to naturalize the darkness as an eclipse.  But it seems more likely to me that Africanus simply assumed based on this being during the reign of Tiberius it was the same Darkness and Earthquake.  Problem is, it occurred in parts of Asia Minor, effecting some of the same cities that had the Churches of Revelation 2-3, not in Judea.

Revelation does also link Earthquakes to the Middle of the Seventieth Week, both the Rapture of The Witnesses and the Seventh Trumpet.

The Annals of Tacitus was year by year, so it's interesting to look at, but he was recording Roman History not Jewish.  Sadly nothing in Josephus seems to be linked to this year.  The events our copies of Jospehus place between the Testemonim Flavinium and the drama that removed Pilate, are events Tacitus places before Pilate became Prefect of Judea.

33 AD is the year of the consulship of Servius Galba and Lucius Sulla (the whole year is named for them even though they didn't serve the entire year.  Their consulship began at it's start).  This Galba it may interest you to know is the same one who latter overthrew Nero and began the year of the Four Caesars.  Tacitus recounts a probably urban legend that Tiberius said something which foretold him being Emperor some day during this Consulship.  Which Tiberius supposedly knew because of Thrasyllus.

I find it interesting that the first thing we're told of this year by Tacitus is that the same two men who were the Consuls for 30 AD, Tiberius decided that year to marry to the two still unmarried daughters of Germanicus, Julia Livilla and Drusilla.  Later these same two men are who Tiberius sent to help Asia Minor after the Earthquake mentioned above.  Vinicius married Livilla and Longinus married Drusilla.  A cousin of Longinus who was Consul later in 30 AD also married a descendant of Julia the Younger about this time.

A Financial Crisis happened in Rome this year, perhaps not unlike the one that will ravage the world when the Black Horseman rides.  Agrippina the Elder and her son Drusus died this year as well.  Also Nerva, a close friend of Tiberius.

I'm afraid Tacitus doesn't say much helping determine when in the year each event happened.

Another thing that makes people support a 32 or 33 AD Passover for the Death of Jesus is the Blood Moon Theory.  A Tetrad of Lunar Eclipses happened on the 15ths of Nisan and Tishri of both 32 and 33 A.D.

Problems with this are many.  The Blood Moon theory is bunk, I recommend Chris White's debunking of it.  And the one on Passover of 33 AD wasn't total or very visible in Jerusalem.  And at any-rate most of the events Blitz links to his Blood Moons happened a year or two before each Tetrad started, so even then they fit a 30 AD Crucifixion better.  Joel and Revelation's Blood Moons are simultaneous with Darkened Suns, they're not Eclipses.  They're either totally supernatural, or caused by volcanic eruptions.

What I will note just for the sake of reference is, this Tetrad ended with one on Tabernacles of 33 AD, which is estimated to have fallen on September 27th.  In light of my feeling that Revelation 12 could be describing when the Moon is under Virgo's feet on or soon after Rosh Hoshanah as the middle of The 70th Week roughly.  I decided to look at when this occurred about half a month before that Lunar Eclipse.  And Saturn was very close to Regulus in Leo, not quite a full conjunction, but very close.  I think that is interesting.

Now if I'm going to be serious about this, let's break down the last two verses of Daniel 9.

Daniel 9:26-27.  From the KJV

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"
This is where we all agree, Jesus died in Nisan 30 AD.

"And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary".
This is why we tend to see 70 AD as during the Gap, or many Preterist models as when the 70 Weeks ends.  But the Hebrew word translated "destroy" here also means corrupt, ruin or decay.  It is used and translated corrupt in Daniel 11:17 "and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him."  It's Aramaic form is in Daniel 2:9 "ye have prepared lying and corrupt words to speak before me".  If the "Prince that shall Come" is in fact the same Prince from earlier in Daniel 9, then the People of the Prince refers to the Jewish people.

So Maybe the reason for the Cleansing of The Temple is what's in mind here.

"And the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
There were Wars going on at this time.  Directly relevant to Israel were a few revolts Pilate had to deal with.  And Herod Antipas had war with Aretas of Petra.

It could also be consistent with seeing the 70th week as 30-37 AD to also see here a somewhat preemptive statement about the wars that went on past then to 70 AD.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".
The common Preterist view is this refers not to the literal taking away of Sacrifice, but them being rendered null and void after The Crucifixion.  And the Covenant here the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31.

This Preterist view is why people often want to make the Crucifixion the middle of The Week, not it's end.  But the word translated "Midst" is also translated "Half" sometimes.  Maybe it could be meant to read "for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".

What remains is simply what's taken as an allusion to The Abomination of Desolation, but it's not the exact phrase.

"and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
Note, the occurrence of "he" after Abomination isn't in the Hebrew text, so there is no guarantee the same person is behind it..

The Preterist view of 70 AD can't work with what Jesus specifically said (probably in reference to the Daniel 12 use of the term) of it being In The Holy Place.

But the Terminology in Daniel 9:27 is much less specific about where, and it does seem to imply more then one Idol being set up.  And the word that is in some translations rendered "wing" can mean Wing, Corner, edge extremity, ect.  So Preterists make a strong argument that this can refer to Titus setting the "Imago" of his Father and other Roman Idols like the standards with the Imperial Eagle on them, or the Fasces, by the Gate of The Temple in 70 AD.

Same with the Last verse of Daniel 11, the word for "tabernacles" simply means tent, and so they argue it refers to the Tents the Roman legions Camped in.  Also as a supporter of the Southern Conjecture, I think the "Appeden" (Translated Palace) could be the Antonia Fortress which was where the Dome of The Rock currently is.

However, what most people haven't noticed is all those factors that could make those two things apply to Titus, can also apply to Pontius Pilate.  Go back and read when Josephus first introduces his readers to Pilate in Antiquities of The Jews Book 18 Chapter 3.

"BUT now Pilate, the procurator of Judea, removed the army from Cesarea to Jerusalem, to take their winter quarters there, in order to abolish the Jewish laws. So he introduced Caesar's effigies, which were upon the ensigns, and brought them into the city; whereas our law forbids us the very making of images; on which account the former procurators were wont to make their entry into the city with such ensigns as had not those ornaments. Pilate was the first who brought those images to Jerusalem, and set them up there; which was done without the knowledge of the people, because it was done in the night time; but as soon as they knew it, they came in multitudes to Cesarea, and interceded with Pilate many days that he would remove the images; and when he would not grant their requests, because it would tend to the injury of Caesar, while yet they persevered in their request, on the sixth day he ordered his soldiers to have their weapons privately, while he came and sat upon his judgment-seat, which seat was so prepared in the open place of the city, that it concealed the army that lay ready to oppress them; and when the Jews petitioned him again, he gave a signal to the soldiers to encompass them routed, and threatened that their punishment should be no less than immediate death, unless they would leave off disturbing him, and go their ways home. But they threw themselves upon the ground, and laid their necks bare, and said they would take their death very willingly, rather than the wisdom of their laws should be transgressed; upon which Pilate was deeply affected with their firm resolution to keep their laws inviolable, and presently commanded the images to be carried back from Jerusalem to Cesarea."

All the same factors are there.  The Roman garrisons, the plural Idols to Caesar.  And Josephus specifies Pilate was the First Roman to do this.   And his "Judgment Seat" probably the same seat he Tried Jesus from, was part of the Antonia Fortress.

So, a good argument can be made for a Preterist view of the 70 Weeks.  The problem is, if the Covenant is the real New Covenant, how is it confirmed for only one week and not forever?  Maybe the entire Church Age should be viewed as the 70th Week repeatably playing out in cycles until the true final fulfillment comes and we're Raptured in the Middle?

Or it could be notable that the parts of Acts I estimate to be seven years after The Cross corresponds to when The Gospel began to spread beyond just Jews and Judea.  So likewise with my view on the 144,000 and the Sixth Seal when the true 70th Week begins The Gospel is again focused on Israel and Israelites.

Also, it could be interesting to read Acts 3 and 4 under a premise that Peter and John there are serving as types of The Two Witnesses.

On The Issue of The Seventieth Week of Daniel

There are some Christians out there who are Preterist in their understanding of the 70 Weeks of Daniel including the 70th.  But still Premillennial, and Futurist in their understanding of Revelation, Matthew 24 and other parts of Daniel.  They believe there is no gap between the 69th and 70th Week, and that the 70 Weeks prophecy has no connection to Revelation or the End Times.  They are all "Post-Trib" from what I've seen so far.

This belief itself can have different forms in how they believe the 70 Weeks are already fulfilled.  The point is they believe it is the great error of most Futurists to force a 7 year time period into their understanding of Revelation.  They insist Revelation and Daniel 12 all repeatedly define the time period of the End Times as 42 Months, 1260 days, Time Times and half a Time, ect.

That this time peirod happens to be half of seven years, and Daniel 9:27 happens to divide it's 70th week in half, and Daniel 12 again brings up the Abomination of Desolation in one of those time period references, is all just a coincidence.

Related to this is another view that there is a gap, but the gap is in the middle of the 70th week, not between the last two weeks.   That Jesus on the Cross marks the mid-Way point of the 70th Week, not the end of the 69th as a plain reading implies.

They wouldn't consider what I pointed out above a coincidence.  But they view the first half as having nothing to do with Revelation, and so would agree that all references to 3.5 years in Revelation are about the same time period.  There is no coming seven year period.

Problem is, the 42 months of Revelation 11:2 and 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 can't be the same time period.  In the former Israel controls The Temple, the Gentiles only have the Outer Court, but in the Latter they're hiding in The Wilderness.

There are two ways they would respond to this argument of mine.

Some would allegories 11:2, the Temple and Holy City there is The Church, not Jerusalem.  And the Outer Court being Trodden Under Foot refers to either 1. Persecution, or 2. fake Christians within the Church.  They argue this Holy City can't be the Same as terrestrial Jerusalem described latter as "Spiritually Sodom and Egypt".  But that is always the nature of Jerusalem in the Old Testament.  She constantly falls into a Sinful State , but God never ceases considering her his Holy City.

The alternative is to reject the The Woman being Israel, or at least National Israel, bringing replacement theology into it.  Saying she's The Church, or part of The Church.  Or keeping her as National Israel but only the believing Remnant.  Such views convolute things too much.

So yes, a Seven Year time peirod can be demonstrated from Revelation alone, without turning to Daniel.

I believe Revelation 11's 3.5 year references are the first half of the 70th Week.  The Seventh Trumpet marks the midway point and The Rapture, and then the 3.5 year references in Revelation 12 and 13 are the second half.

I've elaborated on this here.