I've expressed in the past my view that The Church isn't on The Earth during The Millennium. We're in New Jerusalem, which is also Yahweh-Shammah.
The physical city of New Jerusalem already exists, it's in Heaven, maybe it's accurate to say in a sense it IS Heaven. It is the Heavenly Jerusalem and Zion of Hebrews 12:22.
The term "Sides of The North" appears in The Bible twice. Once dealing with Lucifer's Fall in Isaiah 14, and once in Psalm 48 talking about the Heavenly Zion when it descends as New Jerusalem.
It is my belief that the 144,000 are part of the Church and in some sense represent The Church.
Revelation 14 describes them as standing on Mount Sion. In terminology that implies now they have been Resurrected.
I see The Rapture in the Seventh Trumpet (which extends into the opening part of Revelation 12).
Revelation 14 depicts the Raptured Church standing in the Heavenly Zion.
Thursday, June 4, 2015
Wednesday, June 3, 2015
Understanding what Syria means in various Bible references
In all likelihood no use of "Syria" in the King James Bible is exactly synonymous with Modern Syria.
Every time you see Syria in The Old Testament, the Hebrew said Aram, one of the sons of Shem. Now very early on Aram settled further north, maybe in modern Turkey. But they had traveled to the Damascus area well before the time of Saul.
The kingdom of Aram was centered around Damascus, but it did not include all or even most of modern Syria. It's size varied at different times of course. But it certainly never controlled anything on the other side of the Euphrates River. And also never anything north of Lebanon. Pretty much anything between Damascus and modern Syria's borders with Leabanon and Israel and western Jordan had been Aramean territory at times. And they also sometimes controlled parts of north western Jordan, and possibly extended into the Golan Heights.
Our word Syria comes from Greek usage that was adopted by the Romans. In origin it derives from Assyria, which is what they called Asshur. The Assurian Empire at times controlled pretty much all of modern Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Israel, and also parts of Turkey. The original intent of the word might have been Mesopotamia + Syria = Assyria.
The name became synonymous with the Seleucid Empire to an extent. At it's greatest extent Seleucus controlled all of what Assyria had and even more of Turkey (almost all of it really) and Iran and into Afghanistan and Pakistan and the very edge of India.
But once Parthia broke off as well as the Hasmonean revolt it shrunk a great deal, many parts of Turkey became independent as did Petra/Nabatea. For awhile it looked a lot like modern Syria and Iraq plus chunks of Turkey. In about 150 BC it lost Mesopotamia to Parthia.
Damascus was also independent of the Seleucids for awhile. Also, Antioch the Seleucid capital is not part of modern Syria but in Turkey.
The Septuagint is likely the origin of thinking of Syria and Aram as synonymous. I think the Septuagint translators made a bit of a mistake there.
The Septuagint is likely the origin of thinking of Syria and Aram as synonymous. I think the Septuagint translators made a bit of a mistake there.
The Roman Province of Syria also never matched modern Syria exactly, it's capital was also Antioch. It never had anything on the other side of the Euphrates, and also most of the time did not Include Damascus (sometimes Damascus was independent, sometimes it was under Herodian control, Aretas had it when Paul was there). To an extent it was the base of what the Seleucid Kingdom had declined down to when it fell to Pompey.
After Hadrian put down the Bar-Kochba Revolt he made Judea which he renamed Palestina part of Syria. Later that again broke off into a separate province.
This is why Daniel 11 never uses Syria as a synonym for the King of The North like it does Egypt for The South. And why we should be iffy about assuming any possible eschatological application for 36-45 must equal modern Syria or Damascus. Or of reading references to Syria and Damascus in other prophecies as being about the same as the King of The North. There is however good reason to see a possible correlation between The Assyrian and the King of The North.
If The Antichrist is the Willful King of Daniel 11:36-45 he is NOT the King of The North.
I.S.I.S. has been observed as starting to look kind of like both ancient Assyria and the Seleucid Empire. But in order for that to fully work it'll have to take some parts of Turkey. And that seems highly unlikely.
Since the Captial was often the most important identifying city of a Kingdom in ancient times, it's easy to see why the King of Antioch would be the King of The North from Israel's perspective even though other Hellenistic Kingdoms were further North. It's directly due North of Israel.
Today Antioch is in Turkey, but it's not Turkey's capital. So an argument that the King of The North now refers to Turkey would be a complicated one to make. It's ties to Seleucus are as valid as Syria and Iraq's. But in Daniel 11:40 the King of The South is taking the lead, Turkey is not likely to let Egypt take the lead in any alliance.
Modern Syria is broken up between at least 4 camps right now. The Assad government which may not control much outside the immediate vicinity of Damascus does kinda look like Aram right now. I.S.I.S., The Kurds who don't want anything besides their homeland, and other resistance groups who hate Assad and Isis equally.
The largest city in modern Syria is Aleppo rather then Damascus. The news confuses me so I honestly have no idea if Aleppo is under I.S.I.S. control or not, but I think it's currently not, but it is definitely an objective of ISIS to take it.. It's near the Turkish border where Antioch is.
Aleppo is possibly around where Aram was at some point before they traveled south and settled in the Damascus area. Seleucus named the city Beroea, which derived from Boreas, the North Wind in Greek Mythology, which is interesting.
The Hebrew word translated North in Daniel 11 is Zaphon, which is also the name Ugarit texts give Jebel Aqra on the modern Syria-Turkey border south of Antioch.And apparently Seleucus I made the decision to found Antioch where and how he did after praying to Zeus on that very mountain. So he was truly the King of Zaphon.
Some Old Testament locations that equate to around where Aleppo and Antioch are would be Laish (conquered by Dan in Judges, not to be confused with Leshem, the Dan of the Golan Heights) and Hammath.
Basically the areas where the Denyen of the Egyptian Sea Peoples records and Danuna of the Amarna letters lived. As well as Yamhad. Ugarit is also near there.
Modern Syria is broken up between at least 4 camps right now. The Assad government which may not control much outside the immediate vicinity of Damascus does kinda look like Aram right now. I.S.I.S., The Kurds who don't want anything besides their homeland, and other resistance groups who hate Assad and Isis equally.
The largest city in modern Syria is Aleppo rather then Damascus. The news confuses me so I honestly have no idea if Aleppo is under I.S.I.S. control or not, but I think it's currently not, but it is definitely an objective of ISIS to take it.. It's near the Turkish border where Antioch is.
Aleppo is possibly around where Aram was at some point before they traveled south and settled in the Damascus area. Seleucus named the city Beroea, which derived from Boreas, the North Wind in Greek Mythology, which is interesting.
The Hebrew word translated North in Daniel 11 is Zaphon, which is also the name Ugarit texts give Jebel Aqra on the modern Syria-Turkey border south of Antioch.And apparently Seleucus I made the decision to found Antioch where and how he did after praying to Zeus on that very mountain. So he was truly the King of Zaphon.
Some Old Testament locations that equate to around where Aleppo and Antioch are would be Laish (conquered by Dan in Judges, not to be confused with Leshem, the Dan of the Golan Heights) and Hammath.
Basically the areas where the Denyen of the Egyptian Sea Peoples records and Danuna of the Amarna letters lived. As well as Yamhad. Ugarit is also near there.
Tuesday, June 2, 2015
Adiabene, Christianity, and Messiah Ben-Joseph
This is an interesting follow up to my post on the Kurds and the Lost Tribes.
Adiabene in the Talmud is called Hadayb and is identified with Habor of II Kings 17:6 in Kddushin 17a. Where some of the Northern Kingdom exiles were transported.
Josephus records how Helena the wife of Adiabene's king Monobaz I converted to Judaism, around the same time so did her son Izates. A Jew named Ananias was their teacher in Judaism. Izates and Monobaz II his older bother both ruled the Kingdom. Izates died before 60 AD. Monobaz II assisted the Jewish rebellion against Rome in 66-70 AD, we know nothing about his fate or history after 70 AD, or indeed the Kingdom at all till the reign of Trajan. Helena and Izatez were buried in Jerusalem.
The Yosippon (a not easily available in English Hebrew adaptation of various parts of Josephus, but could also relate some useful independent information), claims that both Agrippa II and Monobaz II were killed by Rome in the 66-73 AD War. Because Agrippa II we know lived after that, the entirety of that reference is often considered discredited. But Monobaz fate is unknown, the Romans didn't usually let people who rebelled against them get off easy (Agrippa was on their side so they wouldn't kill him). And it's not hard to imagine reasons Josephus wouldn't have mentioned Monobaz being executed.
However if Monobaz did die during that War I doubt it was at it's start as the Yosippon actually says, placing it 1290 days before the Temple's destruction on the 9th of Av in 70 AD. The text of Yosippon wants to present this double murder as fulfilling the Messiah being Cut Off of Daniel 9, which is why Preterists love quoting it. In Josephus Menahaim ben Judas the Galilean was killed about this time after being Crowned.
If Izates and Monobaz were descendants of Northern Kingdom Exiles who had lost their identity, but now had returned to Yahweh worship and lead their entire nation in doing so. And if Monobaz II died in battle with Edom in 70 AD. It's interesting how they resemble the role that Messiah Ben-Joseph is expected to play by modern Jews. All that would be left is for one or both of them to be Resurrected by Messiah Ben-David.
Josephus' biography of Izates even tells us his paternal half brothers were jealous of him because of the favoritism he received being the son of the favorite wife. So his story has parallels to Joseph.
What's interesting about that to me is that there is also speculation that the Judaism they converted to may have been early Christianity. The fact that whether or not Izates should be circumscribed is a source of disagreement is interesting. The Ananias they knew has been speculated to be the Ananias of Acts. And according to Moses of Khorone, Helena later married the Christian King Abgar of Osroene (Osroene's capital was Edessa), another Mesopotamian region, after her first husband Monobaz I died.
Monobaz II is quoted in the Talmud as saying something possibly influenced by Jesus.
Assyrian Christian traditions say Thomas, Thaddeus and Bartholomew were the first to bring the Faith to Assyria. And that Peter was in Babylon like he said he was when he wrote 1 Peter. But the details of the early development of Mesopotamian Christianity are not well documented. Their first known Bishop was from the time of Trajan.
The majority of Assyrians were Christians already when Constantine made it legal in Rome, and so they defected to Rome from Persia.
Many scholars believe the royal family of Adiabene could be among the ancestors of the Amatuni, a noble family that popped up in Armenia in the fourth century, and were Christians.
If the Amatuni could be from a family with Jewish stock, I feel that gives credibility to the claims of the Bagartid dynasty, who shows up near the same region only a century or two later.
What is interesting about the Bagratid claim is they claim to come from the near Kin of Jesus.
The descendants of Jesus half siblings, or at least some of them, remained in Jerusalem and were pretty much the exclusive leadership of the Jerusalem church til the Bar-Kochba revolt. They didn't disappear entirely then however.
Eusebius quotes Julius Africanus as referring to people claiming to be descended from the siblings of Jesus in his day, but they had now left Judea and traveled into other countries.
The male name Naom is a fairly rare Hebrew name, I don't think anyone in The Bible had it in either Testament. But it's feminine form, Naomi, is infamous as the name of an important character in the book of Ruth, a book about the origins of the Davidic Line.
We don't know the names of Jesus sisters, maybe one was named Naomi? But later record keepers wanted to obscure that they'd carried this line through a woman?
We know the identity of one of Izates's wives and she wasn't from Judea but another Proselyte. But Josephus says he had 48 children in 25-30 years. So clearly he had more wives. First century Judaism was still practicing Polygamy. We also don't know if Monobaz II ever married or reproduced at all.
Two early second century Rulers of Osroene were called "Bar Ezad"(Son of Ezad) even though no ruler named Ezad is mentioned. It could be this indicates further ties between Izates and the family of Abgar. Abgar bar Ezad also rebelled against Trajan when the Jews of the region did. Agbar VIII and Agbar IX were probably descended from Manu Bar Ezad.
Moses of Khorone clearly felt the people of Abgar's Edessa were among the progenitors of the Armenians of his day which is why he focused on Agbar so much and not on the actual rulers of First Century Armenia who were always either Roman or Parthian vassals.
Creating a Jewish monarchy Izates and Monobaz could very likely have sought descendants of David as wives. And if they were early Christians, could have desired strong ties to Jesus family who were leading the Jerusalem Church and probably other early Jewish-Christian Churches as well.
The Kingdom of Osroene was also founded by Nabateans in the second century BC, making them Ishmaelites.
Modern DNA studies have shown that modern Jews are close cousins to Armenians and Christian Kurds.
Update April 2016: These theories happened to come up in my discussion of Arthurian Legend and Grail Romances.
Update October 2019: It's also possible the Jacob son of Cleops of that genealogy is James son of Joseph the oldest Half Brother of Jesus.
Adiabene in the Talmud is called Hadayb and is identified with Habor of II Kings 17:6 in Kddushin 17a. Where some of the Northern Kingdom exiles were transported.
Josephus records how Helena the wife of Adiabene's king Monobaz I converted to Judaism, around the same time so did her son Izates. A Jew named Ananias was their teacher in Judaism. Izates and Monobaz II his older bother both ruled the Kingdom. Izates died before 60 AD. Monobaz II assisted the Jewish rebellion against Rome in 66-70 AD, we know nothing about his fate or history after 70 AD, or indeed the Kingdom at all till the reign of Trajan. Helena and Izatez were buried in Jerusalem.
The Yosippon (a not easily available in English Hebrew adaptation of various parts of Josephus, but could also relate some useful independent information), claims that both Agrippa II and Monobaz II were killed by Rome in the 66-73 AD War. Because Agrippa II we know lived after that, the entirety of that reference is often considered discredited. But Monobaz fate is unknown, the Romans didn't usually let people who rebelled against them get off easy (Agrippa was on their side so they wouldn't kill him). And it's not hard to imagine reasons Josephus wouldn't have mentioned Monobaz being executed.
However if Monobaz did die during that War I doubt it was at it's start as the Yosippon actually says, placing it 1290 days before the Temple's destruction on the 9th of Av in 70 AD. The text of Yosippon wants to present this double murder as fulfilling the Messiah being Cut Off of Daniel 9, which is why Preterists love quoting it. In Josephus Menahaim ben Judas the Galilean was killed about this time after being Crowned.
If Izates and Monobaz were descendants of Northern Kingdom Exiles who had lost their identity, but now had returned to Yahweh worship and lead their entire nation in doing so. And if Monobaz II died in battle with Edom in 70 AD. It's interesting how they resemble the role that Messiah Ben-Joseph is expected to play by modern Jews. All that would be left is for one or both of them to be Resurrected by Messiah Ben-David.
Josephus' biography of Izates even tells us his paternal half brothers were jealous of him because of the favoritism he received being the son of the favorite wife. So his story has parallels to Joseph.
What's interesting about that to me is that there is also speculation that the Judaism they converted to may have been early Christianity. The fact that whether or not Izates should be circumscribed is a source of disagreement is interesting. The Ananias they knew has been speculated to be the Ananias of Acts. And according to Moses of Khorone, Helena later married the Christian King Abgar of Osroene (Osroene's capital was Edessa), another Mesopotamian region, after her first husband Monobaz I died.
Monobaz II is quoted in the Talmud as saying something possibly influenced by Jesus.
"My fathers stored up below and I am storing up above... My fathers stored in a place which can be tampered with, but I have stored in a place which cannot be tampered with… My fathers gathered treasures of money and I have gathered treasures of souls."-Baba Batra 11a.Matthew 6:19-21
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."It'd be interesting if Helena, Izates II and Monobaz II are all resurrected at The Rapture and proclaim Jesus to be The Messiah Ben-David to all who witness it.
Assyrian Christian traditions say Thomas, Thaddeus and Bartholomew were the first to bring the Faith to Assyria. And that Peter was in Babylon like he said he was when he wrote 1 Peter. But the details of the early development of Mesopotamian Christianity are not well documented. Their first known Bishop was from the time of Trajan.
The majority of Assyrians were Christians already when Constantine made it legal in Rome, and so they defected to Rome from Persia.
Many scholars believe the royal family of Adiabene could be among the ancestors of the Amatuni, a noble family that popped up in Armenia in the fourth century, and were Christians.
If the Amatuni could be from a family with Jewish stock, I feel that gives credibility to the claims of the Bagartid dynasty, who shows up near the same region only a century or two later.
What is interesting about the Bagratid claim is they claim to come from the near Kin of Jesus.
The descendants of Jesus half siblings, or at least some of them, remained in Jerusalem and were pretty much the exclusive leadership of the Jerusalem church til the Bar-Kochba revolt. They didn't disappear entirely then however.
Eusebius quotes Julius Africanus as referring to people claiming to be descended from the siblings of Jesus in his day, but they had now left Judea and traveled into other countries.
A few of the careful, however, having obtained private records of their own, either by remembering the names or by getting them in some other way from the registers, pride themselves on preserving the memory of their noble extraction. Among these are those already mentioned, called Desposyni, on account of their connection with the family of the Saviour. Coming from Nazara and Cochaba, villages of Judea, into other parts of the world, they drew the aforesaid genealogy from memory and from the book of daily records as faithfully as possible.I think Sumbat's Chronicle is corrupted and confused by the early traditions that were uncomfortable with Jesus having siblings by the same mother.
Genealogy of the Bagrationi dynasty according to SumbatGeneration 60 has Cleopas which I believe the original source of the genealogy probably had Joseph. And I also think his and Jacob's spots got switched. That makes Naom, generation 62, the same generation as Jesus. Now you may be thinking, Jesus didn't have a brother named Naom?
- Adam
- Seth
- Enos
- Kenan
- Mahalalel
- Jared
- Enoch
- Methuselah
- Lamech
- Noah
- Shem
- Arpachshad
- Cainan
- Salah
- Eber
- Peleg
- Reu
- Serug
- Nahor
- Terah
- Abraham
- Isaac
- Jacob
- Judah
- Perez
- Hezron
- Ram
- Amminadab
- Nahshon
- Salmon
- Boaz
- Obed
- Jesse
- David
- Solomon
- Rehoboam
- Abijah
- Asa
- Jehosaphat
- Jehoram
- Amaziah
- Uzziah
- Jotham
- Ahaz
- Hezekiah
- Manasseh
- Amon
- Josiah
- Jeconiah
- Shealtiel
- Zerubbabel
- Abiud
- Eliakim
- Azor
- Zadok
- Achim
- Eliud
- Eleazar
- Matthan
- Cleopas
- Jacob
- Naom
- Salah
- Robuam
- Mohtar
- Eliakim
- Benjamin
- Iherobem
- Moses
- Judah
- Eliazar
- Levi
- Jehoram
- Manasseh
- Jacob
- Mikiah
- Jehoakim
- Jehrubem
- Abraham
- Job
The male name Naom is a fairly rare Hebrew name, I don't think anyone in The Bible had it in either Testament. But it's feminine form, Naomi, is infamous as the name of an important character in the book of Ruth, a book about the origins of the Davidic Line.
We don't know the names of Jesus sisters, maybe one was named Naomi? But later record keepers wanted to obscure that they'd carried this line through a woman?
We know the identity of one of Izates's wives and she wasn't from Judea but another Proselyte. But Josephus says he had 48 children in 25-30 years. So clearly he had more wives. First century Judaism was still practicing Polygamy. We also don't know if Monobaz II ever married or reproduced at all.
Two early second century Rulers of Osroene were called "Bar Ezad"(Son of Ezad) even though no ruler named Ezad is mentioned. It could be this indicates further ties between Izates and the family of Abgar. Abgar bar Ezad also rebelled against Trajan when the Jews of the region did. Agbar VIII and Agbar IX were probably descended from Manu Bar Ezad.
Moses of Khorone clearly felt the people of Abgar's Edessa were among the progenitors of the Armenians of his day which is why he focused on Agbar so much and not on the actual rulers of First Century Armenia who were always either Roman or Parthian vassals.
Creating a Jewish monarchy Izates and Monobaz could very likely have sought descendants of David as wives. And if they were early Christians, could have desired strong ties to Jesus family who were leading the Jerusalem Church and probably other early Jewish-Christian Churches as well.
The Kingdom of Osroene was also founded by Nabateans in the second century BC, making them Ishmaelites.
Modern DNA studies have shown that modern Jews are close cousins to Armenians and Christian Kurds.
Update April 2016: These theories happened to come up in my discussion of Arthurian Legend and Grail Romances.
Update October 2019: It's also possible the Jacob son of Cleops of that genealogy is James son of Joseph the oldest Half Brother of Jesus.
About the theories of the Kurds descending from the Lost Tribes
I've written before on my belief that the Kurds are probably the eschatological Medes.
Some theories about the Lost Tribes speculate that they contributed to the Kurds ancestry. I really don't want to get into all the usual arguments on that.
What I first want to say here is it shouldn't surprise us there might be a correlation between descendants of the Medes and descendants of the Lost Tribes. II Kings 17:6 says many of the deported Northern Israelites were taken to the Cities of the Medes. Some suggest Mountains of Media was the original text, I reject theories that say the text is corrupted, but the basic outcome is the same.
Jerome in his commentary on Hosea Chapter 1 said.
The reason the modern Samaritans have an Aaronic Priesthood (or one claimed to be Aaronic anyway) is because as Jospehus records a brother of the High-Priest in Jerusalem in the time of Alexander The Great married the daughter of the governor of Samaria and then with Alexander's support built his own Temple there. Their local traditions later imagined a more distinct and ancient lineage for their Temple and it's Priesthood, but The Bible doesn't support that.
Two of the key Kurdish cities today are Nisibis and Irbil. Irbil was Arbela in the First Century. Both had large Jewish populations and were among the Mesopotamian cities where Jewish uprisings happened during the Kitos War in the reign of Trajan (Along with Edessa and Seleucia). That is likely when Kohen families came there.
Arbela was the capital of Adiabene. Adiabene in the Talmud is called Hadayb and is identified with Habor of II Kings 17:6 in Kddushin 17a. Where some of the Northern Kingdom exiles were transported.
Josephus records how Helena the wife of Adiabene's king Monobaz I converted to Judaism, around the same time so did her son Izates. A Jew named Ananias was their teacher in Judaism. Izates and Monobaz II his older bother both ruled the Kingdom. Izates died before 60 AD. Monobaz II assisted the Jewish rebellion against Rome in 66-70 AD, we know nothing about his fate or history after 70 AD, or indeed the Kingdom at all till the reign of Trajan. Helena and Izatez were buried in Jerusalem.
After both the 70 and 135 AD Diasporas I'm certain this was a place many fleeing Jews would have felt was a safe place to go. I follow up on this and speculate on Lost Tribes connection for Adiabene here.
Modern DNA studies have shown that modern Jews are close cousins to the Armenians and Christian Kurds. However Arabic Kurds are not so closely related, at least not as far as direct mater-lineal and pater-lineal lines of descent go.
Some researches through interpreting that DNA evidence see Kurdistan as the place of common origin and the Jews as the offshoot.
I believe the Ur that Abraham came from was Urkesh not the Sumerian Ur. Urkesh, Haran, and and the City of Nachor were all in what is today Kurdistan. Laban we are told had sons, so his daughters aren't his only descendants, Laban descended from a brother of Abraham. Nachor was the name of both the Grandfather and a Brother of Abraham. Another son of Abraham's brother Nachor was Chesed, I think possibly the ancestor of the Kasites who were also the Kasidim/Chaldeans.
Later these descendants of the siblings and cousins of Abraham mingled with deported Northern Israelites, and Jews who came there following the Captivities of Judah. Also the Kingdom of Osroene who's capital was Edessa was founded by Nabateans, descendants of the firstborn son of Ishmael.
Some theories about the Lost Tribes speculate that they contributed to the Kurds ancestry. I really don't want to get into all the usual arguments on that.
What I first want to say here is it shouldn't surprise us there might be a correlation between descendants of the Medes and descendants of the Lost Tribes. II Kings 17:6 says many of the deported Northern Israelites were taken to the Cities of the Medes. Some suggest Mountains of Media was the original text, I reject theories that say the text is corrupted, but the basic outcome is the same.
Jerome in his commentary on Hosea Chapter 1 said.
"The Ten Tribes of Israel inhabit to this day the cities and mountains of the Medes, as their fathers did a thousand years before."However I also want to comment on how the fact that some Kurds have the Y Chromosome that indicates descent from Aaron is used as evidence. Descendants of Aaron did NOT exist among the Exiled Israelites. We are told specifically in the account of the Kingdom's split in 1 Kings that the Levites fled South when Jeroboam fell into Idolatry and then he created a non Levitical Priesthood.
The reason the modern Samaritans have an Aaronic Priesthood (or one claimed to be Aaronic anyway) is because as Jospehus records a brother of the High-Priest in Jerusalem in the time of Alexander The Great married the daughter of the governor of Samaria and then with Alexander's support built his own Temple there. Their local traditions later imagined a more distinct and ancient lineage for their Temple and it's Priesthood, but The Bible doesn't support that.
Two of the key Kurdish cities today are Nisibis and Irbil. Irbil was Arbela in the First Century. Both had large Jewish populations and were among the Mesopotamian cities where Jewish uprisings happened during the Kitos War in the reign of Trajan (Along with Edessa and Seleucia). That is likely when Kohen families came there.
Arbela was the capital of Adiabene. Adiabene in the Talmud is called Hadayb and is identified with Habor of II Kings 17:6 in Kddushin 17a. Where some of the Northern Kingdom exiles were transported.
Josephus records how Helena the wife of Adiabene's king Monobaz I converted to Judaism, around the same time so did her son Izates. A Jew named Ananias was their teacher in Judaism. Izates and Monobaz II his older bother both ruled the Kingdom. Izates died before 60 AD. Monobaz II assisted the Jewish rebellion against Rome in 66-70 AD, we know nothing about his fate or history after 70 AD, or indeed the Kingdom at all till the reign of Trajan. Helena and Izatez were buried in Jerusalem.
After both the 70 and 135 AD Diasporas I'm certain this was a place many fleeing Jews would have felt was a safe place to go. I follow up on this and speculate on Lost Tribes connection for Adiabene here.
Modern DNA studies have shown that modern Jews are close cousins to the Armenians and Christian Kurds. However Arabic Kurds are not so closely related, at least not as far as direct mater-lineal and pater-lineal lines of descent go.
Some researches through interpreting that DNA evidence see Kurdistan as the place of common origin and the Jews as the offshoot.
I believe the Ur that Abraham came from was Urkesh not the Sumerian Ur. Urkesh, Haran, and and the City of Nachor were all in what is today Kurdistan. Laban we are told had sons, so his daughters aren't his only descendants, Laban descended from a brother of Abraham. Nachor was the name of both the Grandfather and a Brother of Abraham. Another son of Abraham's brother Nachor was Chesed, I think possibly the ancestor of the Kasites who were also the Kasidim/Chaldeans.
Later these descendants of the siblings and cousins of Abraham mingled with deported Northern Israelites, and Jews who came there following the Captivities of Judah. Also the Kingdom of Osroene who's capital was Edessa was founded by Nabateans, descendants of the firstborn son of Ishmael.
Could Antiochus Epiphanes claim descent from the Lost Tribes?
I've already talked a lot about the possible familial connections of the Seleucid Dynasty in my three part Genealogy of The Antichrist study.
In light of my recent speculation that the Eight King could be Antiochus Epiphanies himself. As well as my other speculation that The White Horseman could claim, validly or not, Ephraimite descent and try to claim he's Messiah Ben-Joseph. This is an interesting speculation.
As I said before, I don't think he'll admit to being the hated Epiphanes, I think it's possible if he is open about being someone from the past, he might claim to be his more fondly remembered father.
I do not necessarily endorse Lost Tribes became Western Europeans theories in general. But the nature of tribal migrations is complicated. And Dan certainly had an interesting history. Also my theory is more about him claiming such a lineage then if it's actually true.
Antiochus Epiphanes is not usually someone advocates of such theories seek to claim. But I have a different perspective.
The Macedonian Royal family claimed descent, like the Spartans, from the sons of Herakles and through him to Perseus and Andromeda of Joppa and the Danoi. All allowing possible connections to Dan or Edom. But the Seleucids have no provable direct connection to the Agrid line however.
The sons of Herakles whom the Spartan and Macedonian royal families claim descent from supposedly intermarried with the leading family of the Dorian tribes. Some engaged in Lost Tribes related theories have speculated that the Dorians could have a connection to Dor, a port city of Manasseh, one governor of Dor had married a daughter of Solomon. Dor is also associated with the Tjekker of the Sea Peoples.
The Macedonians were distinct from the other Dorian derived classical Greek nations in also having some Celtic stock to them. So Oliver Stone was not being completely random casting Irish and Scottish actors as Macedonians in his Alexander The Great film. The relationship between the Celtic and Cimmerian peoples is complex.
Apama the wife of Seleucus I was the daughter of Spitamenes, a Perisan Satrap. He had in his ancestry Persian and Median rulers and through them Assyrian ones too. The mother of Esarhaddon was possibly an Israelite. Further back there were Assyrian Kings named Asshur-Dan about whom we know little, making me wonder if connections between Assyrian Royalty and the Denyen might have taken place.
The City of Antioch itself is pretty much in the heart of the Danuna/Laish Dan area.
The Crimmerians are at the center of the main Lost Tribes became Europeans theories. Most critics of the view just point to the obvious connection between the Cimmerians and Gomer son of Japheth, that Bill Cooper documents well in After The Flood. He covers it in both the Where to Begin chapter and Appendix 3.
Thing is, the name Gomer also appears in Hosea as the name of the prostitute God has Hosea marry who becomes a symbolic type of Ephraim/Israel. So advocates of the theory suggest using that name could also be a prophecy about a future intermingling of the descendants of Gomer and the Northern Kingdom.
Khumri is how the Assyrians rendered the name of Omri, which they used to refer to the Northern Kingdom in general even well after the House of Omri fell. The basis for connecting the northern Kingdom exiles to the name of the Cimmerians has often been just based on arguing that Khumri could've become Ghumri and Gimri and so on. That I think is largely what makes it look silly to people. Though more implausible things have happened in etymology.
Our pre-history of the Cimmerians is pretty speculative, drawing mainly form Herodotus and other heavily contrived Greek accounts. But a connection between their name and Crimea I do consider likely.
The first appearance of the Cimmerians in Assyrian records is during the reign of Sargon II, dated to about 714 BC. After the first two main deportations of the Israelites. At this time they seem to be "In the midst Mannae" a buffer state between Assyrian and Uratu, rather then where they usually were later. They assisted Sargon in his war with Uratu. Mannae is mentioned in The Bible as Minni in Jeremiah 51:27. Their kingdom was located south and east of Lake Urmia. Firmly within Median territory where many exiles had been taken according to II Kings 17:6.
Later the Cimmerians during the reigns of Esarhaddon and Asshurbanipal would become enemies of Assyria, and ally with other traditional enemies of Assyria. It's not implausible that descendants of exiled Israelites would have been attracted to joining up with the Cimmerians.
The Cimmerian nation at it's greatest extent expanded into many other regions of Turkey, like Pontus and Cappadocia. In Hellenistic times the Cimmerians who remained in the region were known as the Galatians. The Hellenistic kingdoms of Galatias, Cappadocia and Pontus royal families intermarried a lot with the Seleucid Dynasdty, as well as Pergamon and Commagene. The mother of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the daughter of Mithridates II of Pontus.
In light of my recent speculation that the Eight King could be Antiochus Epiphanies himself. As well as my other speculation that The White Horseman could claim, validly or not, Ephraimite descent and try to claim he's Messiah Ben-Joseph. This is an interesting speculation.
As I said before, I don't think he'll admit to being the hated Epiphanes, I think it's possible if he is open about being someone from the past, he might claim to be his more fondly remembered father.
I do not necessarily endorse Lost Tribes became Western Europeans theories in general. But the nature of tribal migrations is complicated. And Dan certainly had an interesting history. Also my theory is more about him claiming such a lineage then if it's actually true.
Antiochus Epiphanes is not usually someone advocates of such theories seek to claim. But I have a different perspective.
The Macedonian Royal family claimed descent, like the Spartans, from the sons of Herakles and through him to Perseus and Andromeda of Joppa and the Danoi. All allowing possible connections to Dan or Edom. But the Seleucids have no provable direct connection to the Agrid line however.
The sons of Herakles whom the Spartan and Macedonian royal families claim descent from supposedly intermarried with the leading family of the Dorian tribes. Some engaged in Lost Tribes related theories have speculated that the Dorians could have a connection to Dor, a port city of Manasseh, one governor of Dor had married a daughter of Solomon. Dor is also associated with the Tjekker of the Sea Peoples.
The Macedonians were distinct from the other Dorian derived classical Greek nations in also having some Celtic stock to them. So Oliver Stone was not being completely random casting Irish and Scottish actors as Macedonians in his Alexander The Great film. The relationship between the Celtic and Cimmerian peoples is complex.
Apama the wife of Seleucus I was the daughter of Spitamenes, a Perisan Satrap. He had in his ancestry Persian and Median rulers and through them Assyrian ones too. The mother of Esarhaddon was possibly an Israelite. Further back there were Assyrian Kings named Asshur-Dan about whom we know little, making me wonder if connections between Assyrian Royalty and the Denyen might have taken place.
The City of Antioch itself is pretty much in the heart of the Danuna/Laish Dan area.
The Crimmerians are at the center of the main Lost Tribes became Europeans theories. Most critics of the view just point to the obvious connection between the Cimmerians and Gomer son of Japheth, that Bill Cooper documents well in After The Flood. He covers it in both the Where to Begin chapter and Appendix 3.
Thing is, the name Gomer also appears in Hosea as the name of the prostitute God has Hosea marry who becomes a symbolic type of Ephraim/Israel. So advocates of the theory suggest using that name could also be a prophecy about a future intermingling of the descendants of Gomer and the Northern Kingdom.
Khumri is how the Assyrians rendered the name of Omri, which they used to refer to the Northern Kingdom in general even well after the House of Omri fell. The basis for connecting the northern Kingdom exiles to the name of the Cimmerians has often been just based on arguing that Khumri could've become Ghumri and Gimri and so on. That I think is largely what makes it look silly to people. Though more implausible things have happened in etymology.
Our pre-history of the Cimmerians is pretty speculative, drawing mainly form Herodotus and other heavily contrived Greek accounts. But a connection between their name and Crimea I do consider likely.
The first appearance of the Cimmerians in Assyrian records is during the reign of Sargon II, dated to about 714 BC. After the first two main deportations of the Israelites. At this time they seem to be "In the midst Mannae" a buffer state between Assyrian and Uratu, rather then where they usually were later. They assisted Sargon in his war with Uratu. Mannae is mentioned in The Bible as Minni in Jeremiah 51:27. Their kingdom was located south and east of Lake Urmia. Firmly within Median territory where many exiles had been taken according to II Kings 17:6.
Later the Cimmerians during the reigns of Esarhaddon and Asshurbanipal would become enemies of Assyria, and ally with other traditional enemies of Assyria. It's not implausible that descendants of exiled Israelites would have been attracted to joining up with the Cimmerians.
The Cimmerian nation at it's greatest extent expanded into many other regions of Turkey, like Pontus and Cappadocia. In Hellenistic times the Cimmerians who remained in the region were known as the Galatians. The Hellenistic kingdoms of Galatias, Cappadocia and Pontus royal families intermarried a lot with the Seleucid Dynasdty, as well as Pergamon and Commagene. The mother of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the daughter of Mithridates II of Pontus.
The Kings of The East
Today references to the Kings of The East by modern Bible Prophecy speakers pretty much always assume they are the Far East, China, Korea, Japan, India and the other nations around them.
But The Biblical references to them during the Sixth Bowl account in Revelation 16:12-16 begins with talk about the Euphrates River being dried up. That river is depicted as the border holding them back.
The Euphrates river as a border should remind Biblically literate readers of God's original Covenant with Abraham, where it is the eastern most border of what God promised to Abraham.
But in John's day it was also the primary border between the Roman and Parthian Empires, whether you see John's day as Nero or Domitian's reign. With Parthia on the other side of that border were Parthian Client kingdoms, Edessa, Adiabene, Armenia, Media, Characene, Elymais, ect. Some of whom were often caught in the middle of Rome and Parthia's ongoing Cold War.
You do not have to be Preterist to keep what these geographical terms in John's day meant in mind when trying to interpret Revelation. Keeping them in mind is just common sense. The problem for Preterists is the only Army to come from East of the Eurphrates to Judea during the 66-73 AD Jewish-Roman War was the army lead by Monobaz II which was on the Jews' side.
What intrigues me as a Futurist who is interested in the theory that History always repeats itself. Is how in many ways the way the world is lining up now is eerily similar to John's day, though with obvious differences too. The region of "Persia" being in conflict with the West is one example of that.
This emphasis on the Euphrates River I feel is also damaging to any Mystery Babylon theory that is dependent on making Babylon some non Mesopotamian region. Whether it's Rome, America, Jerusalem/Israel, Arabia, Turkey, whatever your fixation is. The name Babylon is not the only geographical tie Revelation has to that region.
The first Bowl of God's Wrath is the immediate aftermath of The Mark being instituted. The rest come in pairs. 2 and 3 are about the world's water supply being destroyed, 4 and 5 are about the Sun. So it's not a coincidence that 6 and 7 both mention names linked to Mesopotamia.
Satan, The Beast, and The False Prophet, use demonic entities to gather the world's armies but particularly it seems the Kings of the East to Armageddon against God. Marching on God is indeed his plan but I think he also has another intent here.
Remember, Babylon is NOT the Beast's Capital, whatever kind of Geo-Political entity she is, she wields power over The Beast, she is riding it. It hates her and wants her dead. I think he wants to lure the armies around Babylon away from her so he can do a sudden sneak attack on her.
You may be thinking "Problem with your theory is the Euphrates isn't a border anymore". Our official Maps still like to think of Iraq as all one country, but internally it's divided. Right now the Euphrates may not make a perfect border between it's internal divisions yet, but I think it's interesting that most of what is under Iranian backed Shiite control is East of the Euphrates.
If modern Iran winds up effectively controlling most of Iraq (besides what's Kurdish) east of the Euphrates. It will become an Empire that looks a lot like the ancient Parthian Empire.
And so that is a problem for people who back up their view of a Pre-Trib Gog and Magog invasion by saying that Iran seems to play no role in the events of the Final Week. In fact it does.
It's also possible that this could be how The Medes role in the fall of Babylon as recorded by Isaiah 13 and Jeremiah 50-51 ties into Revelation.
But The Biblical references to them during the Sixth Bowl account in Revelation 16:12-16 begins with talk about the Euphrates River being dried up. That river is depicted as the border holding them back.
The Euphrates river as a border should remind Biblically literate readers of God's original Covenant with Abraham, where it is the eastern most border of what God promised to Abraham.
But in John's day it was also the primary border between the Roman and Parthian Empires, whether you see John's day as Nero or Domitian's reign. With Parthia on the other side of that border were Parthian Client kingdoms, Edessa, Adiabene, Armenia, Media, Characene, Elymais, ect. Some of whom were often caught in the middle of Rome and Parthia's ongoing Cold War.
You do not have to be Preterist to keep what these geographical terms in John's day meant in mind when trying to interpret Revelation. Keeping them in mind is just common sense. The problem for Preterists is the only Army to come from East of the Eurphrates to Judea during the 66-73 AD Jewish-Roman War was the army lead by Monobaz II which was on the Jews' side.
What intrigues me as a Futurist who is interested in the theory that History always repeats itself. Is how in many ways the way the world is lining up now is eerily similar to John's day, though with obvious differences too. The region of "Persia" being in conflict with the West is one example of that.
This emphasis on the Euphrates River I feel is also damaging to any Mystery Babylon theory that is dependent on making Babylon some non Mesopotamian region. Whether it's Rome, America, Jerusalem/Israel, Arabia, Turkey, whatever your fixation is. The name Babylon is not the only geographical tie Revelation has to that region.
The first Bowl of God's Wrath is the immediate aftermath of The Mark being instituted. The rest come in pairs. 2 and 3 are about the world's water supply being destroyed, 4 and 5 are about the Sun. So it's not a coincidence that 6 and 7 both mention names linked to Mesopotamia.
Satan, The Beast, and The False Prophet, use demonic entities to gather the world's armies but particularly it seems the Kings of the East to Armageddon against God. Marching on God is indeed his plan but I think he also has another intent here.
Remember, Babylon is NOT the Beast's Capital, whatever kind of Geo-Political entity she is, she wields power over The Beast, she is riding it. It hates her and wants her dead. I think he wants to lure the armies around Babylon away from her so he can do a sudden sneak attack on her.
You may be thinking "Problem with your theory is the Euphrates isn't a border anymore". Our official Maps still like to think of Iraq as all one country, but internally it's divided. Right now the Euphrates may not make a perfect border between it's internal divisions yet, but I think it's interesting that most of what is under Iranian backed Shiite control is East of the Euphrates.
If modern Iran winds up effectively controlling most of Iraq (besides what's Kurdish) east of the Euphrates. It will become an Empire that looks a lot like the ancient Parthian Empire.
And so that is a problem for people who back up their view of a Pre-Trib Gog and Magog invasion by saying that Iran seems to play no role in the events of the Final Week. In fact it does.
It's also possible that this could be how The Medes role in the fall of Babylon as recorded by Isaiah 13 and Jeremiah 50-51 ties into Revelation.
Monday, June 1, 2015
The Seven Churches of Revelation
This is not an in-depth study, just my random thoughts on how this is studied by others.
First clearly every message applies perfectly to each Church at that time.
Clearly they go beyond that or they wouldn't be put here, every Church needs to try and see which one of these they most resemble.
All Seven are congregations of Saved individuals, Jesus would not be writing to them if they weren't. Revelation is defined as a Revelation for His servants.
Two have nothing good said about them and two nothing bad said about them. That doesn't necessarily mean either of those were actually flawless or without objectively redeeming qualities.
One important observation I feel is that neither the two best or the two worst have their positions on doctrine mentioned. Jesus is judging how good they are at being Christians, not so much how good they are at believing Christian doctrine.
I talk about The Doctrine of The Nicolatians elsewhere.
I was in the past on board for the seeing them also in the order they are listed as representing a summery of Church History. But I've grown more critical of that.
First of all it has a largely western bias to see only the second period of Church history as defined by persecution. Right now the majority of the Body of Christ is under threat of being killed for their Faith, in countries like China, North Korea, Islamic nations and other Third World countries. Meanwhile the French Revolution also gets overlooked.
Not to mention that perspective also ignores Christians being persecuted by other Christians, like the reformation period which has Catholics persecuting Protestants, Protestants persecuting Catholics, Henry VIII persecuting both and everyone persecuting Baptists.
Meanwhile in Matthew 24 Jesus warned us the end of the Church Age will see our greatest persecution ever.
The desire to see Thyatira as the medieval Catholic church causes people to want to see the Jezebel reference there as to the Catholic view of Mary. But the context to me is clearly about a false prophet who happens to be female.
I talk about Laodicea here.
For Pergamos, better known as Pergamon, most people assume "Satan's Seat" there refers to the Altar of Pergamon, now housed as the Museum in Berlin. But that doesn't have a Throne of any kind.
There are a number of other structures at Pergamon that could work better. The Heroon where the kings of the by then defunct Hellenistic Kingdom of Pergamon were worshiped. The Temple of Athena, The Temple of Dionysus. The Diodorus Pasporos Heroon.
Two structures on the lower Acropolis involved Serpent themed deities. One was the Temple of Asklepius (the Asclepium), a son of Apollo affiliated with healing.
The key however I think is that the Satan's Seat references are both before and after the reference to the Martyrdom of Antipas. According to tradition Anipas was killed in the Temple of Serapis, known today as the Red Basillica.
The statues of Serapis tend to take a very basically Human and Hellenic form, but with a Serpent like base modeled after the Egyptian Uraeus symbol of ruler-ship.
Serapis is another deity that gets brought up in those ridiculous Christ-Myth theories.
First clearly every message applies perfectly to each Church at that time.
Clearly they go beyond that or they wouldn't be put here, every Church needs to try and see which one of these they most resemble.
All Seven are congregations of Saved individuals, Jesus would not be writing to them if they weren't. Revelation is defined as a Revelation for His servants.
Two have nothing good said about them and two nothing bad said about them. That doesn't necessarily mean either of those were actually flawless or without objectively redeeming qualities.
One important observation I feel is that neither the two best or the two worst have their positions on doctrine mentioned. Jesus is judging how good they are at being Christians, not so much how good they are at believing Christian doctrine.
I talk about The Doctrine of The Nicolatians elsewhere.
I was in the past on board for the seeing them also in the order they are listed as representing a summery of Church History. But I've grown more critical of that.
First of all it has a largely western bias to see only the second period of Church history as defined by persecution. Right now the majority of the Body of Christ is under threat of being killed for their Faith, in countries like China, North Korea, Islamic nations and other Third World countries. Meanwhile the French Revolution also gets overlooked.
Not to mention that perspective also ignores Christians being persecuted by other Christians, like the reformation period which has Catholics persecuting Protestants, Protestants persecuting Catholics, Henry VIII persecuting both and everyone persecuting Baptists.
Meanwhile in Matthew 24 Jesus warned us the end of the Church Age will see our greatest persecution ever.
The desire to see Thyatira as the medieval Catholic church causes people to want to see the Jezebel reference there as to the Catholic view of Mary. But the context to me is clearly about a false prophet who happens to be female.
I talk about Laodicea here.
For Pergamos, better known as Pergamon, most people assume "Satan's Seat" there refers to the Altar of Pergamon, now housed as the Museum in Berlin. But that doesn't have a Throne of any kind.
There are a number of other structures at Pergamon that could work better. The Heroon where the kings of the by then defunct Hellenistic Kingdom of Pergamon were worshiped. The Temple of Athena, The Temple of Dionysus. The Diodorus Pasporos Heroon.
Two structures on the lower Acropolis involved Serpent themed deities. One was the Temple of Asklepius (the Asclepium), a son of Apollo affiliated with healing.
The key however I think is that the Satan's Seat references are both before and after the reference to the Martyrdom of Antipas. According to tradition Anipas was killed in the Temple of Serapis, known today as the Red Basillica.
At this temple in the year 92 Saint Antipas, the first bishop of Pergamum ordained by John the Apostle, was a victim of an early clash between Serapis worshipers and Christians. An angry mob is said to have burned Saint Antipas alive inside a Brazen Bull incense burner, which represented the bull god Apis.The name Serapis similarity to our word serpent is somewhat debatable if it's a coincidence or not. Supposedly the name came from a Hellenized combing of the Egyptian deities Osiris and Apis. Apis was probably the Egyptian deity the Golden Calf was modeled after. Serapis also took on aspects of Dionysus and Hades.
The statues of Serapis tend to take a very basically Human and Hellenic form, but with a Serpent like base modeled after the Egyptian Uraeus symbol of ruler-ship.
Serapis is another deity that gets brought up in those ridiculous Christ-Myth theories.
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