Tuesday, December 24, 2019

The Rapture still hasn't happened at the end of Revelation Chapter 7

This argument is applicable to refuting Pre-Trib and maybe some forms of Mid-Trib and Post-Trib.  But I'm mainly making it with the "Pre-Wrath" model of Chris White in mind, the view that should be called the Sixth Seal Rapture view, in fact I think it's possibly the true final nail in the coffin of that view.

I've already deconstructed most layers of their argument, how silly it is to use the least unique characteristics of Matthew 24's Parusia account to decide where it happens in Revelation and choose a place with no truly uniquely Parusia characteristics.  And how there is no Wrath during the Trumpets.  But there is one issue I keep forgetting to really get into, and I only just recently realized the full implication of what Revelation chapter 7 says.

So Chris White's position is that the Multitude in Heaven in Revelation 7:9-17 is the post Rapture Resurrected Church .

Now I and Chris White agree that this Multitude is clearly the same people under the Altar when the Fifth Seal is opened back in chapter 6.  And we both agree that back then they had not been Raptured/Resurrected yet since they are explicitly described as just souls there.

I guess White feels like their state being different at all must be proof they are resurrected now, because there is really no other reason to think that.

You can't argue the Robes represent their bodies since they already possessed them in the Fifth Seal. I'm not sure what exactly the Robes are.but to argue they are their Resurrected Bodies would require arguing our Resurrected bodies have no continuity with our current bodies which would be functionally the same as making the Resurrection merely spiritual.

The key detail I only recently noticed however is that the last verse of the chapter is clearly describing the Rapture as yet Future, when the Lamb "shall lead them unto living fountains of waters" is The Rapture.  And you can't say I'm misusing the word "shall" by treating it as inherently future tense because the part about God wiping away all tears is definitely yet future, that happens in Chapter 21.

So that kills the Rapture view of Chris White, Revelation 7 explicitly tells us the Rapture is still yet future.  The scope of the Chapter is showing us Church Age saints on Earth and the souls of martyrs in heaven.

In Chapter 14 it's the 144 Thousand who are described in ways that are unambiguously telling us they are Resurrected now, by being "Redeemed from the Earth" and the "Firstfruits".  And in the first part of Revelation 7 they are still on Earth, as they are in the Fifth Trumpet later.  And in Paul being Sealed is a Church specific promise, tied to our promise that the Holy Spirit will not leave us which the Old Testament Saints didn't have.

So I feel like I can now firmly declare "Pre-Wrath" to be dead.

2 comments:

  1. Hello Jared, I have done some "hypothesis" on Holy Spirit, in relation to end time events. Does below make sense to you? I am no nerd or scholar. I didn't read much Scripture either. But I do have the Spirit telling me things which don't fit the most prevalent Christian views.

    “FEMALE” & PLURAL WORDS IN ANCIENT HEBREW LANGUAGE
    ==================================================
    The Hebrew word for “God”, Elohim, is a plural word. So, “God” is the name for a family of “gods”.

    The “God” mentioned in Genesis 1:1 created heavens and earth. It is reasonable to assume that he is God the Creator.

    The Hebrew word for “Spirit of God” in Genesis 1:2, “Ruach”, is a female word. So, this Spirit of God is a female.

    CREATOR THE MARRIED MALE GOD
    ============================
    Genesis 1:27 said “Man, male & female” was made in God’s own image. Genesis 2 & 3 indicated that Adam & Eve were husband & wife. The man named his wife after himself first, as “woman”. He later gave her another name “Eve”, after characteristics of her.

    It is reasonable to assume that Creator’s family is “God, male & female”. The husband is God the Creator; he named his wife after himself first, Spirit of God. She also was given another name later, one which is more endearing and after her characteristics. Her name is focus of this study.

    As Eve physically came from Adam the husband, “Spirit of God” spiritually came from Creator the Husband.

    PROGRESSION OF HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH TIME & TRIALS
    ================================================
    I think in the beginning wife of God was simply known as Spirit of God since she was Creator’s first wife. From the way God pursues perfection in everything good and godly, Spirit of God may probably be known as “Spirit of Complete Devotion to God”. She may be mother of all other godly spirits.

    She came to be known as the Holy Spirit because that is what her son Jesus Christ called her when Lord Jesus honored his Father & Mother. Out from this Spirit came the action of both parents sacrificing their only begotten son to save other spirit-mothers’ sons if they so choose to be saved.

    FATHER, MOTHER, ADAM
    ====================
    It is self-evident in all of Creation that a child must have a father and a mother, and that husband and wife won’t be called father & mother if they don’t have any children. So, the Creator God became a father when he fathered a child with one of his many spirit wives.

    As such it is reasonable to assume that Spirit of Life given to Adam in Genesis 2:7 is Adam’s mother.

    MEANING OF A BEGOTTEN SON
    =========================
    Isaac is called a begotten son of Abraham, even though he wasn’t the eldest or the only son. Why?

    It is because Isaac was Abraham’s son by his first wife Sarah. Sarah was not only Abraham’s first wife, but also from Abraham’s own family. It is reasonable to assume that whether a son is begotten or not depends wholly on whom the son’s mother is.

    JESUS CHRIST, GOD’S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
    =====================================
    From the hypothesis so far, it is reasonable to assume that Jesus Christ was son of Father the Creator and the wife He has set apart, “Holy Spirit of God”. That explains Lord Jesus’ esteem for Holy Spirit when he declared that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unpardonable in this age or next (Matthew 12:32).

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    Replies
    1. I have on my SolaScripturaChristianLiberty blog explored the idea of the Holy Spirit being Feminine.

      I believe everyone will be Saved, there is no choice in that matter.

      What is your view on the timing of The Rapture.

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